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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> where to start with VM36 tune /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1383469402 Message started by savagebob on 11/03/13 at 01:03:22 |
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Title: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 11/03/13 at 01:03:22 Hi guys, I've got my bike running with one of Lancers VM36 with UFO, got it started today. Started fine but I think it's running a bit rich as I get a puff of black smoke when I blip throttle.. and it runs on a bit, like revs high and slowly comes down when I blip throttle. I haven't messed with carbs before so not sure what I'm doing. There is a air screw on the right and a idle screw with a spring on the left.. or is it the other way around. the other thing is it only starts and runs with the choke down. If I have it up it won't start and if I put it up whilst running it dies. That can't be right? Any tips welcome :D |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by LANCER on 11/03/13 at 04:27:37 Email sent in response to your questions before I saw your post here |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by Alcohie on 11/03/13 at 10:44:28 Lancer, just shot u an email, I am having to same problems as savagebob |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by Alcohie on 11/04/13 at 07:22:05 Did u get your carb adjusted properly? If so could u explain what u had to do because I am in the same boat as u right now |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 11/04/13 at 12:15:07 No.. I'm a total newb to carbs. Mine won't run with the enricher lever up so I think the primary jet is too small. Playing with the air screw doesn't make any difference. So.. now just to figure out how to change the primary jet I suppose? :-/ I thought there would be heaps of people with VM36 carbs around who'd know where to start. |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by Dave on 11/04/13 at 12:43:22 I have a VM 36 and it runs great......and it just took a bit of jet changes and tweaking. It did run well right out of the box with the jetting that Lancer provided. I don't have the UFO and have a standard slide, and I don't have the Dial a Jet either. I just went "Old School" so I could Keep It Simple Stupid. It may run better with the UFO installed and set up properly - but I have no experience with that. I do have a UFO slide that I can try....but it runs so well right now I am just riding and enjyoying the scenery.....I hate to take it apart and start messing around with so few good weather days left in this year. Lancer most likely set it up with the proper jetting for the UFO.....which I believe needs little or no pilot jet to run properly. |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by Alcohie on 11/04/13 at 13:30:33 Ok I will let u know how and what I do to get it right if and when I do |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 11/04/13 at 13:31:42 From what I understand it, the fuel enricher uses completely different fuel suppy. So the fact my bike runs on these but not when the enricher is off seems to me that the primary isn't supplying enough fuel? |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by Alcohie on 11/04/13 at 14:48:56 Ok just did mine, the needle clip was in the second slot from the top, I left it there, checked the pilot and it was a 10 so changed it to 15, the small screw on the right side from the back of the carb is the mixture screw set it at 1.5 turns, reinstall carb if using stock petcock turn to prime and leave it there, make sure idle screw is backed out, choke down, start, adjust idle let warm up a litttle,choke up, should idle now, still more tweaking to be done but should get u to idle without choke I had to adjust mixture in a half turn to get it to quit sputtering when giving throttle not perfect but its better then where I was, now I will get with lancer to find out what next. Good luck Also I am running a mac muffler and kn cone filter so your settings might be a little different then.mine depending on the what mods if u have any questions feel free to ask |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 11/04/13 at 18:11:45 yeah.. so, what is the needle clip and how do I adjust that? (I really don't know anything about carbs!) mixture screw is on right side of carb when your sitting on bike right? idle is the one with the spring? I'm running a 1.5" custom header pipe with BCB drag pipe and no air filter at the moment. :D Oh and I'm at sea level. :D |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by LANCER on 11/05/13 at 02:32:18 The needle is #9 and the needle clip is #8. The dark section at the top of the needle is the area with 5 grooves that the clip goes in. The top groove is the leanest position and the bottom groove is the richest setting. http://www.Sudco.com/Diagrams323728/expvm.gif |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 11/05/13 at 14:36:59 Cool, so you'd suggest changing the needle jet settings AND the primary jet one size bigger? |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by Alcohie on 11/05/13 at 14:42:26 I had to go 3 sizes bigger on my pilot jet, I am at 17.5 on the pilot, the needle settings stayed the same as it was in the second slot from the top |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 11/05/13 at 17:08:49 How does it run though? From your previous post it sounded like you'd achieved an idle but it was rough from there. I think Lancer suggests changing both the primary to achieve idle and the needle to achieve more fuel from there.. |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by Alcohie on 11/05/13 at 18:05:27 Its running good, cant tell you as far as driving because not in driveable condtion but idle and reving is good |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 11/05/13 at 19:51:04 ok cool i'll follow your route.. are you sea level? I think I'll need at least the same size primary jet as my exhaust is larger dia all the way through and it's ported out |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by Alcohie on 11/06/13 at 07:10:04 Just 130ft or so above sea level, keep me updated on your progress! |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 11/06/13 at 21:59:15 Ok well the carb is pretty straight forward now that I've opened it up for a looksie. But, my pilot jet is soldered closed? It's also VERY hard to see the numbers on them lol. My eyesight is good but man, you need a magnify glass to see anything. My needle had the clip on the second notch, I lowered it down to the 3rd notch and put it back together but still not gonna run without enricher. It maybe ran for like.. a second and then dies.. which is a second better than before but not enough. So.. where to.. should I take the sealed primary out and put in something?? |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by LANCER on 11/07/13 at 03:34:14 Responded to your email; swap the soldered pilot for the #15 |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 11/08/13 at 19:40:14 Ok I've dropped in the #15 pilot, needle back to 2nd notch now it idles, lots of backfires though when I twist the throttle to 1/4 - 1/2 and pops and shut off with a boom. Alcohie are you running the UFO? |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by LANCER on 11/08/13 at 21:45:43 796B7C6B6D6F6865680A0 wrote:
What is your pilot screw setting ? |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by Alcohie on 11/08/13 at 21:55:10 Yes I have ufo, try letting it warm up at idle for 10 to 15 mins then adjust the mixture screw clockwise about a 1/4 turn at a time and see if it improves any, the idle will probably raise a little when adjusted note how many turns out! If less then 1 turn out go up to a 17.5 (advice I received from lancer) |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 11/09/13 at 02:44:57 It's got 1.5 turns out.. so I adjust the screw and when the idle picks up a bit faster that's the correct spot? It's sorta hard to tell the difference in idle at all from the screw to be honest. I took it for a ride but anything above a slow cruise and it surges and pops, like it wants to go but it can't. |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by LANCER on 11/09/13 at 04:10:46 Once completely warmed up, when you are ready to adjust the pilot screw, it can be helpful to raise the idle up with the idle screw. Take it up to 1500-1800 rpm, or if you do not have a tach then raise it so there is a significant increase in rpm just based on your estimate from the sound. By raising the rpm this way, the engines changing rpm/sound from the pilot screw adjustment is easier to notice because the engine is a little more responsive to the pilot screw changes. You want to find the place where the rpm is maximized during pilot screw adjustment. When you find this BEST setting, if you turn either right or left, the engine will decrease rpm. There is usually a small range right & left (like 1/4 turn or so) where there is no noticeable change, and if so, then set the screw at the mid point between those to marks. Of course, if you find the engine rpm continues to increase as you go to either full rich (less than 1 turn out), or near 3 turns out on the lean side, then you should change the pilot jet accordingly and start the tuning again from the 1.5 turn out position. |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 11/12/13 at 02:06:26 ok I tried a #15 pilot and the needle at no.3 notch, screw 2 turns out. Ran better but with a big rough patch around 1/4 - 1/2 throttle. If I slowly turned throttle it's ok, but if I crank it quickly it stumbles. Put needle back to no.2 notch and symptoms were worse. Replaced pilot with #17 with needle at no.2 screw 1.5 turns out. Running better but still with the rough patch when I snap open the throttle quickly. Also, I aways get a gunshot out the exhaust approx 2 seconds after I turn it off. How do I get rid of that? |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by LANCER on 11/12/13 at 02:56:32 keep the 17.5 pilot and take the needle clip back to the #3 slot adjust the pilot screw as needed for best rpm that should improve your 1/4-3/4 response |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 11/15/13 at 01:38:16 that got it. 17.5 pilot, needle at 3rd notch and screw 1.5 turns out. Way way better, I think I could still tweak it slightly tho. Launches hard in 1st, but chop into 2nd and wot and it bogs for just a moment before accelerating really hard. Might just play with the screw slightly. Feels much quicker than when I first got the bike! Acceleration off the line is good. It's gonna be interesting when this supercharger goes on.. Cheers Lancer |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 12/02/13 at 12:23:38 I've played with this some more, I've got it pretty good but if I wind it wide open in 1st or 2nd there is an annoying hesitation before it pulls hard. How would I go about getting rid of this? |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by verslagen1 on 12/02/13 at 14:44:23 574552454341464B46240 wrote:
raise the needle I believe. |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 12/02/13 at 17:57:25 hmm it's already at the 3rd notch wouldn't that make everything too rich? That said.. I've tried adjusting the air screw and can't get rid of the hesitation, it pulls hard after it splutters for a bit. |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by verslagen1 on 12/02/13 at 19:07:30 maybe you need an air/fuel mixture gage |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by LANCER on 12/03/13 at 03:24:48 504255424446414C41230 wrote:
If you have turned the pilot screw clockwise to richen the low-range mixture and that did not solve the hesitation, then moving the clip on the needle to the 4th groove should be considered. However, you have left out some information. You did not say at what position the throttle was in at the point when the hesitation occurred. If the throttle was between idle-1/4 throttle, then the pilot system needs attention; if the throttle was at 1/4-3/4 throttle then the needle needs adjusting; if between 3/4-wot then the main jet. Did you take notice at what position the throttle was in when the hesitation occurred ? If not, then you need to. |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 12/08/13 at 13:39:49 The hesitation occurred from 1/4 - 1/2 throttle. I've put notch of needle on 4th and it's got rid of the problem. I get lots more 'pops' on decl but I quite like that. So now I've got a #17 pilot, screw turned 1.5 turns out, needle at 4th notch, now I think the main jet needs to go bigger as well.. seems to struggle for a bit at WOT |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by LANCER on 12/09/13 at 02:33:26 7B697E696F6D6A676A080 wrote:
Still popping on decel ? Is it loud like shots ? If so, then when completely warmed up continue to tune the pilot screw by turning it IN to see if that will improve its running ...increasing the engine rpm and result in eliminating the loud shot-like popping. If the popping is not shot-like then you are ok. For the main jet, you said it was struggling a bit. Is it stumbling as you near full throttle or is it just loosing power and run out of breath ? IF stumbling then go leaner, but if just running out of breath the go richer. |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by savagebob on 12/09/13 at 19:49:05 it runs out of puff.. so yes I think richer is the way to go. the pops on decel aren't like gunshots, it just gots 'pop - pop - crackle -pop' when I'm decel. It's kinda cool. |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by LANCER on 12/10/13 at 03:53:20 6B796E797F7D7A777A180 wrote:
Popping and crackling is not a problem, it just sounds goooood on decel. Take you main jet up one size then and see how it responds when wide open. If it runs strong all the way out then you are good. If it bogs down at wide open then go back down in jet size. Sounds like you are getting close dude. |
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Title: Re: where to start with VM36 tune Post by Dave on 12/10/13 at 06:19:17 SavageBob: I sent you a PM a while back...and you have not yet opened it. Please go to my Page and send me an email. Dave |
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