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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 97mm Piston /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1367435450 Message started by paulmarshall on 05/01/13 at 12:10:49 |
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Title: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/01/13 at 12:10:49 I have been able to find the last remaining Wiseco 97mm Piston in NZ.According to my local bike shop. I have sent my 400 cylinder head and piston away for a resleeve. I have ordered the gaskets to assemble. Might port the exhaust, but otherwise leave the Head stock and upgrade cam later. Want to see improved performance with Piston upgrade alone. Can anyone share there experience with doing this? I will post pics as soon as cylinder head returns. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/01/13 at 12:42:02 You may not want to stop there. There is a treatment for the cylinder that is supposed to make it "Better",, someone here has had that done,, I hope they chime in, Its OF or Versy or one of the other "Guys who know all",, dang if I can remember.,. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/01/13 at 12:45:54 435C5A5D40477646764E5C501B290 wrote:
Is it the "Silicone Carbide cylinder bore treatment" that Lancer speaks of? Is this to prevent overheating? |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Dave on 05/01/13 at 19:21:25 The Silicone Carbide Treatment makes the cylinder wall very hard. It is supposed to be a worthy upgrade. It is not a power upgrade - but a durability one. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by LANCER on 05/01/13 at 19:37:13 73484552434F545249414C53200 wrote:
Friction and heat reduction is also a benefit, which does yield more efficiency. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/01/13 at 20:11:56 Not sure if my place offers that option. So I will have to be mindful of its temp. Just as well I installed my temp gauge. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by jcstokes on 05/01/13 at 23:33:50 Paul, try www.nzcylinders.co.nz |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by jcstokes on 05/01/13 at 23:40:15 Sorry Paul, www.nzcylinders.com |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/02/13 at 11:32:54 585141465D595741320 wrote:
Thanks jcstokes |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/02/13 at 20:48:07 It arrived today. :) |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by jcstokes on 05/02/13 at 21:00:46 Paul, perhaps you should consult with WISECO about silicon carbide bore treatments and wether in fact such treatments are worth it. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/02/13 at 21:21:34 Its going to Boss Engineering Services in Wanganui. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Super Thumper on 05/03/13 at 06:53:15 I see than no one has mentioned the head gasket regarding this much larger 97mm piston. Be sure to check if the head gasket is protruding into the cylinder before installing it. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/03/13 at 13:40:59 544A434F414E524948260 wrote:
I have PM Lancer in regard to this. If anyone else has done the upgrade feedback is appreciated. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by jcstokes on 05/03/13 at 16:32:44 Do the Boss people do the silicon carbide or are you just going to bore and sleeve? |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/04/13 at 11:36:52 352B222E202F332829470 wrote:
This Reply from Lancer. No one I know of has had an issue with the stock head gasket. The top of the pistons travel in the cylinder stops 4mm short of the top of the cylinder so there is no contact. The overhang of the gasket in the cylinder is very slight even so. You can order a larger copper head gasket from a dude who sells all sorts of copper head gaskets on eBay. He does a nice job of it. It is not a thing that you "have to do" but if you feel better with them then do it. I bought several of the 96mm size from him to try out myself. I have used one of them so far...all went well with it. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/04/13 at 13:09:25 757C6C6B70747A6C1F0 wrote:
I have emailed Boss asking the same question. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/05/13 at 08:34:42 If they dont do it I wouldnt be at all surprised if they would pack it off to have it done for you. Some shops are that cool. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/15/13 at 17:04:03 Cylinder head back from engineers. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/15/13 at 17:05:29 Other end |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/15/13 at 17:06:25 Gaskets are here too. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Cloudy on 05/15/13 at 17:37:16 erm.. that would be the cylinder, just say'n :-[ |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/15/13 at 17:41:57 [quote author=17383B21302D00263D3F3126540 link=1367435450/15#21 date=1368664636]erm.. that would be the cylinder, just say'n :-[/quote] Oops my bad. yes Cylinder. :-[ |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by wambr on 05/15/13 at 21:50:53 Paul,I understand-it's rebored cylinder from the Savage 650? |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/15/13 at 23:22:29 45535F5040320 wrote:
Yes mate you are right. I ended up pulling the 650 out of the white frame AGAIN :( and sent that away for a rebore. At this point I am going to put the 650 back together with the 97mm. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by jcstokes on 05/16/13 at 01:26:19 Paul, what is the Seachrome/PA10 thing on top of the front mudguard? Looks like it's off a '37 Chev or Plymouth or something |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/16/13 at 12:37:01 You noticed that, hard not to. I'm going to photo shop it and position it to see how it will look. Plan is to mount batt inside. Mount ignition in the top of headlight. and as much wiring as possible inside that beast. Not sure exactly what its off but it is 1920s/30s and was side mounted, not mounted to the fender. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by verslagen1 on 05/16/13 at 13:27:22 I think that'll give you a weird top heavy feeling to the front wheel. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by jcstokes on 05/16/13 at 13:30:55 Definitely mid to late '30s, although I lack your tech skills I'm inclined to agree with Verslagen and to be honest I'm not that sure of the aesthetics, but after all it's your bike. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/16/13 at 13:31:05 3B283F3E212C2A28237C4D0 wrote:
Really. :-/ the batt is extra light. Or are you referring to the weight of the headlight? |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/16/13 at 13:33:40 6D647473686C6274070 wrote:
Not sure I will follow through with this yet. Got it for nothing and I like having things older than me lying around the place. :) |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/16/13 at 13:35:47 I may go with my original idea. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Cloudy on 05/16/13 at 14:17:36 5746524B4A4655544F464B4B270 wrote:
Really. :-/ the batt is extra light. Or are you referring to the weight of the headlight?[/quote] Also I suspect you would get sick off the headlight beam bouncing up an down all the time. Not trying to be negative, just pointing out a thought. :-/ |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Cloudy on 05/16/13 at 14:21:45 4B5A4E57565A4948535A57573B0 wrote:
What? Buy a Guzzi? Thats a bit drastic mate. ;D |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/16/13 at 14:28:14 5976756F7E634E6873717F681A0 wrote:
What? Buy a Guzzi? Thats a bit drastic mate. ;D [/quote] I wish :) My original idea was to find a headlight like the one on that GUZZI. http://www.ebay.com/itm/290684525771?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648 |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by jcstokes on 05/16/13 at 16:32:52 Paul, if you are determined upon this course, try to check out a late 'thirties or early post war Ford Anglia or Prefect. The Ford Popular headlamp wouldn't taper enough for your requirements. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Dave on 05/17/13 at 04:41:02 6273677E7F7360617A737E7E120 wrote:
I'm 57........When should I come over? Got the couch ready? |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/17/13 at 11:58:41 0F34392E3F33282E353D302F5C0 wrote:
I'm 57........When should I come over? Got the couch ready?[/quote] ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/22/13 at 21:10:08 The wait is over. My engine has returned rebuilt with the new piston. Guess what Im doing tonight? |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/23/13 at 02:41:38 It lives. :D :D :D http://imgur.com/a/OGypa |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/23/13 at 03:06:46 Turned the key and she fired up and purred. :D |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/23/13 at 06:22:34 Always a pucker moment,, glad it went well.. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Dave on 05/23/13 at 07:54:43 Time to find the gas station in your area that has premium fuel that is fresh. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/23/13 at 18:55:28 OMG :o Im lost for words.A completely different bike. :o Sorry cant produce any solid data, but talk about GRIN :D Got that new smell :) Its better than what I expected. Endless power :D :D |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Dave on 05/24/13 at 07:10:42 Yea.....That new cylinder paint smell.......brings back memories. Wrapping the pipe with some bacon might be a good smell as well? You now have 694.6 cc of fun.....and a bunch more compression. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/24/13 at 13:09:45 7B404D5A4B475C5A4149445B280 wrote:
So I can safely paint 700 on the side now? :) |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/24/13 at 13:39:36 By the way I am running stock carb with 55,155 jets and white spacer mod.This is working fine for now. As I am not giving it full throttle yet. Will upgrade to a Flat slide later. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by jcstokes on 05/24/13 at 15:14:11 Be interesting to see if it's more economical in the 100 - 120 KMPH range. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/25/13 at 14:25:39 When it is run in a little more I will do some tests around fuel usage. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by LANCER on 05/26/13 at 03:56:25 Quote:
Absolutely |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/26/13 at 10:26:19 Once ya get that thing all broke in & any other changes made you wanna make you Gotta get some clocked runs in. LIke 0-60 & 1/8 mile, |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/26/13 at 13:53:18 2C3335322F2819291921333F74460 wrote:
Yes I will definitely do that. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by renegade1 on 05/26/13 at 14:27:58 Noticable difference with the bigger piston? and temp. gauge hey... i would like to see how you do that i've been wondering if anyone has done this. :D |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/26/13 at 14:41:59 6E7972797B7D78792D1C0 wrote:
A huge difference in power :o I will run a number of test when engine is broken in. Only managed 100km so far. :-[ There is definitely more than 50cc increase in power.High comp piston is the culprit I think. Sounds great too. Real deep thump now. Opening the exhaust helped. Still running stock carb with oversize jets. Will install Flat side when $$$ are more available. ;) So far Temp is about same, maybe a degree or 2 higher. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/30/13 at 18:44:31 Clutch issues are back. :( Replaced clutch a couple of months ago with 10% heavier duty springs, and now because of my new found HP the bloody thing slips a little when cold. :( Now I still havent opened the throttle yet as I have only done 150km so far :-[ I know terrible I should have clocked up heaps more by now. :-[ How can I beef up a already beefed clutch so it can handle the extra horses. and I mean Horses :D :D :D |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Dave on 05/31/13 at 05:12:25 The first thing to do would be to check the operation of the clutch rod and lever at the engine. Make sure there is some free play and that the clutch lever/rod is not applying pressure that prevents the clutch from fully seating. If that is OK.....then take the clutch apart and clean everything with a good solvent. When the plates are dry, lay sandpaper on a flat surface and lightly scuff the fiber plates until the shine is gone. Do the same with the metal plates - but only enough that you have a scratchy appearance. Clean the plates again - and them dry them off and install them, and add some oil to the surface as you assemble them. When it is all together make sure you have the proper operation of the clutch rod, and that the rod is not putting pressure on the clutch and keeping it from seating completely. Your clutch can handle the power - if it is working properly and not contaminated with friction modifiers from using the wrong oil. Here is a long thread that discusses most of the clutch slippage issues. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1270678838/0 |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 05/31/13 at 12:29:54 Thanks Dave I was hoping not to open her up AGAIN as the clutch is new. I have been very careful of the oil I use. There is plenty of free play at the clutch lever. Slips in top when i roll on the throttle from 100kmh up. It was fine with the stock piston. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Dave on 06/02/13 at 04:06:01 If the clutch is new.......how new? And is it Suzuki.....or some other manufacturer? |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 06/02/13 at 11:56:00 A couple of months tops. Yes it is Suzuki OEM with 10% heavier duty springs. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/03/13 at 01:38:28 I sure hate to hear its got stouter springs, That "paddle" in the clutch throwout, you know, the one that actually pushes in on the rod that goes down inside the clutch pack, is a known issue. Caused some problems for me when it broke. Busted the cam chain tensioner, the one the adjuster bolts to. Did a coupla other things, minor stuff, but it was at low speed & just off idle when it happened. It brought the bike to a halt. I had shimmed the springs. I doubt seriously I had anywhere near a 10% increase with that little bit of shim., If I was gonna do that Id take one to a machine shop & have one built out of billet stock. I kinda think these things are like pressed into shape, Im wanting to say Sintered,, anyhow, we have seen a few failures in there, not tons, but a few,. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by zx250r on 06/04/13 at 14:06:52 did you decide on the carbide treatment for the cylinder? |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 06/04/13 at 14:09:30 No I didn't in the end, only because it wasn't a option for me. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by zx250r on 06/04/13 at 14:25:18 Thanks. Lastly, do you feel a need for the cam and which jetting did you settle for? Are you sea level? Besides cylinder, gasket, jetting, and assembly is anything else needed? Also what compression is the kit, ie which octane gas/petrol would be used? sorry for soo many questions. 6273677E7F7360617A737E7E120 wrote:
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 06/04/13 at 14:37:18 The cam is something I may look at later. I am close to sea level. I was running 55,155 jets. White spacer mod. Pod air filter and modded exhaust. This was done prior to the piston. Lancer is the man to talk to about the tech stuff. I only installed this piston the other week. So I am still running it in. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 06/04/13 at 14:38:15 But feel free to ask and if I can I will help. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 06/04/13 at 14:46:38 The power increase is enormous and I mean ENORMOUS. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by zx250r on 06/06/13 at 11:28:07 Hi Lancer, I'm in the process of the build, can you tell me what the specs are for the cam grind for low/midrange in the 97mm set up? Or do you have an extra one for sale? 0C010E0305125257600 wrote:
Friction and heat reduction is also a benefit, which does yield more efficiency.[/quote] |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Dave on 06/08/13 at 05:40:54 38293D2425293A3B20292424480 wrote:
PaulMarshall: The power increase is not just because of the change from 94mm to 97 mm.....that gives you a size increase from 652 cc to 695 cc. This is about a 6% increase in size - so if the stock bike is 30 hp you potentially could just up to 31.9 hp. The biggest change you might be realizing is the jump from 8.5 compression to something round 10. This makes the engine much more efficient at the expense of using Premium fuel. You have been talking about the increase heat......and I am not sure this will increase dramatically. The bore has increased 6%...but the circumference has only increased 3%. I don't believe the higher compression ratio will make much difference in heat - as it is the greater expansion ratio that results in more power....not the creation of any substantial increase in the heat produced. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 06/08/13 at 12:09:50 68535E4958544F49525A57483B0 wrote:
PaulMarshall: The power increase is not just because of the change from 94mm to 97 mm.....that gives you a size increase from 652 cc to 695 cc. This is about a 6% increase in size - so if the stock bike is 30 hp you potentially could just up to 31.9 hp. The biggest change you might be realizing is the jump from 8.5 compression to something round 10. This makes the engine much more efficient at the expense of using Premium fuel. You have been talking about the increase heat......and I am not sure this will increase dramatically. The bore has increased 6%...but the circumference has only increased 3%. I don't believe the higher compression ratio will make much difference in heat - as it is the greater expansion ratio that results in more power....not the creation of any substantial increase in the heat produced. [/quote] Thanks for the info Dave. I do really hope any negative side effects are negligible as you say here.Time will tell. I still have only done 150km so far. :-[ |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by LA_Waiting on 08/05/13 at 12:40:03 1203170E0F0310110A030E0E620 wrote:
Hey new guy here who has too few posts to start his own thread. I'm looking to rebuild my engine with 97mm Wiseco piston and have cylinder resleeved. I understand that these pistons are quite obscure to find. Is 4597M09700 the correct model number? I have found this exact model number for our bikes on multiple sites that sell Wiseco Pistons. Aside from doing a blanket order of 12 pistons direct from Wiseco I am not 100% sure they are exact ones. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by paulmarshall on 08/05/13 at 12:46:40 083E283A364F0 wrote:
Hey new guy here who has too few posts to start his own thread. I'm looking to rebuild my engine with 97mm Wiseco piston and have cylinder resleeved. I understand that these pistons are quite obscure to find. Is 4597M09700 the correct model number? I have found this exact model number for our bikes on multiple sites that sell Wiseco Pistons. Aside from doing a blanket order of 12 pistons direct from Wiseco I am not 100% sure they are exact ones. [/quote] Looks right to me. ;) |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by axa on 11/19/13 at 14:38:02 As stated previously in this thread, rather than the bore itself the majority of the power gained is from the increase in compression ratio due to going from a piston that is flat to one that has a dome... this is why i was merely looking at the 95mm bore and wiseco piston... you get most the benefit, while leaving more cylinder material to sink any extra heat if any at all. But how about merely truing the surfaces and eliminating the head gasket? anyone have a calculation on the increase in displacement from ditching the gasket alone? there must be a bit. Or is this a bad idea with our aluminum not seating properly after torque? Then what about decking the head a bit, i could easily do this on my mill. Anyone have a the numbers to shave for say a 10.5 ratio? should be starting a new thread? |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by swedishbiker on 11/20/13 at 01:28:25 94mm piston and 94mm stroke, about 1mm would give 10. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by axa on 11/20/13 at 02:37:00 414557565B415A505B595740320 wrote:
I appreciate the response, but isn't that estimate a bit over simplistic? The calculation needs to be a factor of the reduction in the size of the combustion chamber, that which is not entirely a continuation of the tubal cylinder, but rather a partial hemisphere. The trouble in making this calculation really is estimating this partial hemisphere and all the bits it contains... rather than trouble with merely calculating the reduction in the displacement by removing the gasket itself. Anyone have the actual displacement measure of the combustion chamber itself? How does one even make this measure, if it is not supplied in specifications? I suppose one could use a measured syringe filling the chamber with a liquid... |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Dave on 11/20/13 at 03:16:43 AXA......you are exploring new territory and will need to do the work on this one for yourself. When you lower the head, you are making the cam chain longer by twice the distance that you shave off the head.....so you are going to have to account for that extra length and maybe have to install a new Versy tensioner right away. You might also need to check the valve to piston clearance with whatever cam you want to use....as the stock piston does not have any valve pockets. I am running a 95mm Wiseco in mine.....and it runs great. And it is easy to install. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by swedishbiker on 11/20/13 at 04:04:19 7C657C1D0 wrote:
I appreciate the response, but isn't that estimate a bit over simplistic? The calculation needs to be a factor of the reduction in the size of the combustion chamber, that which is not entirely a continuation of the tubal cylinder, but rather a partial hemisphere. The trouble in making this calculation really is estimating this partial hemisphere and all the bits it contains... rather than trouble with merely calculating the reduction in the displacement by removing the gasket itself. Anyone have the actual displacement measure of the combustion chamber itself? How does one even make this measure, if it is not supplied in specifications? I suppose one could use a measured syringe filling the chamber with a liquid...[/quote] Go ahead, make the measure. And also measure the valve clearance. I guess that factory 8.5 tells the volume in head and milling it would follow very close in decrease volume. It should not touch anything else then the mating surface. The matting part should be very cylindrical. Of course I can be wrong :) |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Super Thumper on 11/20/13 at 07:01:43 The correct displacement for a 95mm jug is 666cc. Here is an online displacement calculator. http://www.ajdesigner.com/fl_engine_displacement/engine_displacement.php |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by verslagen1 on 11/20/13 at 08:32:21 6E776E0F0 wrote:
I appreciate the response, but isn't that estimate a bit over simplistic? The calculation needs to be a factor of the reduction in the size of the combustion chamber, that which is not entirely a continuation of the tubal cylinder, but rather a partial hemisphere. The trouble in making this calculation really is estimating this partial hemisphere and all the bits it contains... rather than trouble with merely calculating the reduction in the displacement by removing the gasket itself. Anyone have the actual displacement measure of the combustion chamber itself? How does one even make this measure, if it is not supplied in specifications? I suppose one could use a measured syringe filling the chamber with a liquid...[/quote] Knowing the current CR (8.5) stroke and diameter, you should be able to work out the volume. I would not recommend the head skim, too many other factors involved. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1200805437/0 |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by axa on 11/20/13 at 11:32:04 Point taken about the other factors such as timing and chain tension, that alone makes me not want to go this route... But to beat a dead horse, I understand that would simply using the equation for cr {[l•([ch960]r²)]÷cr} : {l•([ch960]r²)} making it: {[94•([ch960]47²)]÷8.5} = 76745mm² or 76.75cc I realize now I asked the wrong question, not what the displacement of the combustion chamber is, but rather the differential equation on reducing the chamber from the bottom up. Which I am getting the idea isn't known outside of Suzuki engineering. For if one simply uses the equation of a hemisphere the calculation is off as one can see below, the chamber isn't nearly a true partial hemisphere. (disclaimer not my pic, sorry if its yours) http://i34.tinypic.com/vkea1.jpg I just figured someone had to know becuase if the ratio out there for the wiseco domed piston of 10.5 is accurate, then the actual differential equation for the chamber has to be known, as well as the deck height (ie the height within the cylinder that TDC extends to) I'm just not aware of another way for this number to be accurate without someone using the proper calculation, or doing the liquid measurement. Thus must I then conclude that the ratio stated for the domed piston of is just a ballpark estimate as well? here is a interesting article that address the problem: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/46778_engine_compression_guide/ |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Dave on 11/20/13 at 11:49:09 The compression ratios for the Wiseco are obtained from their website. Not sure how accurate they are.....as the pistons are actually DR650 pistons that also happen to fit the S40/LS650. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by verslagen1 on 11/20/13 at 12:02:59 Now we can measure the change in piston height and come up with a reasonable estimate. If someone can measure the distance from the top of the piston to the top of the wrist pin on both pistons along with the width of the high portion of the wiseco piston and the step from the high to low portions. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by axa on 11/20/13 at 17:33:14 467D7067767A61677C747966150 wrote:
So thats where this number comes from... I assumed it had to be from some engineering entity as it is not an easy measurement or calculation. But is this number based on the intended application, the DR650 engine, which has already a higher 9.5 ratio to begin with? Not for nothing but who believe to have a that 10.5 with this bore, might well be quite some way off... and perhaps on the lower side of that. So to be accurate, the equation for the chamber, equation for the dome, and measure of TDC deck height, is needed to really know for sure. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by axa on 12/01/13 at 22:04:01 just ran across this quote from mr LANCER in another post: "I just went back and did some calculations with the new piston. The raised area on the piston displaces 8.5cc's of the combustion chamber volume which raises the compression 1.4 pts up to 9.9:1, and the additional 3 mm bore increases cyl vol which adds another 0.6 pts, bringing the new total compression ratio to 10.5:1" But there again lies the problem, with all due respect, hearsay, I haven't seen anything published on the displacement of this domed piston. But for the sake of argument lets plug his number in to the equation for the 95mm bore. Starting from stock chamber volume calculated above. {[94•([ch960]47²)]÷8.5} = 76745mm² or 76.75cc then new chamber volume: 76.75 - 8.5 = 68.25 toss that in with the new bore 666.29 : 68.25 = 9.76 So for those of us going with the 95mm piston, i think we should well consider the number is more likely 9.75 or so, and not the 10.5 that some are advertising. And while id like to know where that dome displacement number came from, it seems reasonable and i think i can live with it as is... That said, i just got my cylinder off and prepping to send out to boretech. |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by Dave on 12/02/13 at 05:07:03 I don't know what the CR is for the 95mm.....and I really don't care. It is an easy upgrade, runs without clearance problems with the available Stage 1,2,3 grinds, and makes a noticeable improvement in power. That is good enough for me. AXA.....Why don't you go ahead and do the measurements on your bike....so we will know! |
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Title: Re: 97mm Piston Post by axa on 12/02/13 at 06:02:19 1D262B3C2D213A3C272F223D4E0 wrote:
Just was confused as some stated the 95 bore was the same as the 97. This was the only thread i found, until this morning. This thread sort of answers the question already: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1175481076/0 they estimate 9.5 for the 95mm, though again with with no data to back it up. Maybe compression ratios should get a thread in the Tech Specs section. As for doing the measure myself, i haven't committed to doing any valve work yet, to take an effective measurement it would likely require lapping the valves to help reduce leaking. Also i don't have the graduated tooling required, and dont care to purchase them. |
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