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Deep-Dish Detonation (Read 129 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #45 - 09/25/26 at 16:06:12
 
I reassembled it using a genuine Suzuki DR650 cam with stock valve springs.  I was able to retard the cam timing 6° and ended up with the intake valve closing at 50° ABDC.  The cranking pressure was now 180 psi (that’s a mystery, possibly attributable to reusing the rings).

The odometer is currently reading 5331 miles.  I have put about 2500 miles on the new setup.  It is running excellent.  Power seems to be exactly as it was with the 402 cam.  It’s also very quiet.  No oil consumption.  Fuel consumption is averaging about 55 mpg.  This seems to be a very good combo.  Retarding the cam timing seems to work out well.  Guess I got lucky.

I will update this post periodically to fill you in on the project.

Hey Dave, do you have any photos of the combustion footprint on the top of your 94mm flat-top?
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Dave
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #46 - Yesterday at 03:10:30
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 09/25/26 at 16:06:12:
Hey Dave, do you have any photos of the combustion footprint on the top of your 94mm flat-top?


This is a photo I took when I took it apart to fix the oil leak a the head gasket (aftermarket head gasket without sealant between the plies for those folks not familiar with that fiasco).  The engine had about 500 easy miles on it - the carbon wiped right off the Cerakote Thermal Coating.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #47 - Today at 11:35:59
 
Thanks for the photo Dave.  I think that the combustion deposit pattern might be useful in analyzing detonation problems.  I'm curious why the deposits don't accumulate around the periphery of the piston top.  Looks like you have even less deposits than I do.  The periphery is the quench area and as such the charge is forced out, but I think there should still be some combustion taking place in that zone.  Increasing the deck height to lower my compression seems to have caused the deposits on my piston to fill in a lot of the areas that were previously clean as a whistle.

I've been snooping around on the web trying to see if there is any useful info on interpreting combustion deposits.  So far, all I have been able to find is stuff related to oil consumption or overly rich mixtures, nothing related to detonation.

I was able to find some photos of deposits on Milwaukee 8 engines.  They seem to accumulate in a pattern similar to ours.  Those engines have compression ratios upwards of 10:1. I included a photo of some M-8 pistons.

My engine is running very well, and I have no reason to open it up, but I want to learn as much as I can from this project.  
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FinnHammer
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #48 - Today at 12:58:00
 
Mike,
I cannot understand how I could miss this thread as it progressed over the summer. Thanks for the valve timing (advance/retard) chart, it is a very helpfull reference.
Since you are investigating detonation, do you think it could help to install a second spark plug, like in the LS650 and the XF650 Freewind? It would not be too much trouble to  drill and tap that extra hole. It would take an extra ignition coil and I don't know if the ignitor can handle the extra current.
The output transistor is an FUJI D1071, capable of handling 6A, so perhaps, otherwise it could be replaced with a beefier type.
Or use the Ignitec, which can handle 21A, has programmable ignition curve, rev. Limiter and can take input from throttle position to, for example, retard ignition (also fully programmable) during WOT.
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Dave
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #49 - Today at 15:09:15
 
Mike:

I wonder if the piston skirt has anything to do with it - perhaps the piston top is cooler where it is right above the piston skirt.

Finn:

Adding a second spark plug is far beyond those of us with amateur machining skills.

Perhaps the igniter from a DR650 would work....they use 2 spark plugs on the later version.

Dave
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