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Deep-Dish Detonation (Read 44 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #15 - Yesterday at 21:00:59
 
Mix up some JB Weld and coat the threads on the plug.  Then screw the plug all the way in and cover up the end with JB Weld.  After a hot bath the cylinder will be ready to install.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #16 - Yesterday at 21:01:41
 
I like to run plenty of end gap on my piston rings.  I used Wiseco’s recommended gap for “Street-Moderate Turbo/Nitrous”.  For a 3.820” bore you end up with .019” for the top ring and .021” for the second ring.  Better safe than sorry, it’s an air-cooled engine.
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #17 - Yesterday at 21:02:39
 
I installed a .036” cylinder base gasket. The piston deck was -.012” to -.013”.  With my current 55cc combustion chamber and a .062” head gasket, I will have 9.8:1 compression ratio.  My experience with this engine shows that you can expect lower head temperature with an increase in compression.  So, I expect reducing the compression this much should result in higher head temperature.  We shall see.

The cylinder work was finished.
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #18 - Yesterday at 21:03:30
 
Installing a cam that closes the intake valves later will help reduce cylinder pressure.  The cam holds the valves open as the piston starts up on the compression stroke.  At lower speeds, this allows some of the pressure to bleed off through the open valves.  As engine speed increases, the inertia of the incoming charge prevents this bleed-off.  Since detonation is more prevalent at lower engine speeds, a cam that allows some bleed-off helps to mitigate detonation.

The OEM DR650 cam I was running closes the intake valves at about 44° ABDC.  I have a Web 402 grind that is supposed to close the intake valves at 55° ABDC.  It also has significantly more lift.  
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #19 - Yesterday at 21:04:09
 
I reviewed old graphs that compared the OEM DR650 cam to the Web 402.  The plot of the intake lobe didn’t agree with the Web specs.  Looks like I had better check this cam with a degree wheel to make sure I get the results I am looking for.
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #20 - Yesterday at 21:04:54
 
Web doesn’t specify performance springs for the 402, but with .395” lift it takes the stock valve springs to the point where coils are touching (the early stages of coil bind).  Web installation instructions specify a minimum of .010” clearance between coils with the valve at max lift.  Stock springs aren’t gonna work with the Web 402.
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #21 - Yesterday at 21:06:15
 
I have a set of SuperTech performance springs that can handle the lift, but they are also a lot stiffer.  I would prefer springs that apply pressure similar to the stock springs.  That would be easier on the cam and rockers.  To compromise, I can install the SuperTech springs at 1.350” instead of the stock height of 1.300”.  That will reduce the spring pressure about 12 lbs at max lift.  The SuperTech springs will still apply more pressure than stock, and they can easily handle the lift.

That sounds like a good plan.  Install the Web 402 to close the intake valves about 13° later, and install the SuperTech springs to accommodate the increased lift.

First order of business was to install light checking springs so that I could verify the intake valve closing points.
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #22 - Yesterday at 21:06:58
 
Then install the degree wheel and get it adjusted correctly at TDC.
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #23 - Yesterday at 21:07:58
 
The valve timing is checked with zero valve lash at .050” of valve lift.  I needed to set up a dial indicator to determine .050” lift.  Not a problem of the intake side, but the exhaust side is a bit harder.  There’s more stuff in the way (like the frame).  Not a problem.  I’m not worried about the exhaust timing.  So, this exercise will be confined to the intake.
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #24 - Yesterday at 21:09:26
 
I don’t have factory specifications for the OEM DR cam.  All I have is data from checks I did many years ago.  The DR cam agreed with my previous data.  Intake opened at 10° BTDC and closed at 44° ABDC.  Max lift was .380”.

The Web 402 opened the intake valve at 10° BTDC and closed the intake at 50° ABDC.  Max lift was .395”.  The cam was well shy of the advertised 248 duration (240 vs 248).  Oh well, I want that intake valve closing significantly later.  Solution, retard cam timing about 5°.  Armen figured out a long time ago that there are 22 splines in the cam drive sprocket but there are only 19 teeth for the chain.  So, if you move the sprocket one-spline clockwise and the chain one tooth counterclockwise you should retard cam timing by 2.6°.  If you move the sprocket two-splines clockwise and the chain 2 teeth counterclockwise you retard the cam timing by 5.2°.   It gets a little more complicated if you want any more than a 5° change.  This simple table might prove helpful to some of you.  I’m sure there are more possible combinations, I’m just too lazy to figure them all out.
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #25 - Yesterday at 21:10:23
 
I repositioned my cam drive sprocket 2-splines clockwise, and moved the chain 2-teeth counterclockwise.  That retarded the cam 5°.  We’re talkin 5° on the crank.  The cam rotates at half crank-speed, so the cam is repositioned 2.5° counterclockwise.  This is what 2.5° retarded looks like on the timing marks.
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #26 - Yesterday at 21:11:10
 
Now the intake valve opened at 4° BTDC.
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #27 - Yesterday at 21:12:09
 
And the intake closed at 56° ABDC.  So, I should be closing the intake valve about 12° later than I was with the OEM DR cam.  I hope this helps mitigate the detonation problem.
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #28 - Yesterday at 21:12:50
 
While the checking springs were still installed, I did clay checks to verify that the valves weren’t getting too close to the piston.  It’s a bigger cam with more lift & overlap, and I have retarded the timing.  Best make sure that the valves have plenty of room.  No problem here, the valves didn’t even touch the clay.
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Re: Deep-Dish Detonation
Reply #29 - Yesterday at 21:13:37
 
I removed the checking springs and installed the SuperStreet performance springs.  My Stage III head was already set up for high lift cams.  The guides had been shortened and the Kibblewhite titanium retainers afford additional travel.  There’s no need to worry about a spring retainer crashing into a guide seal.  Then the head went back onto the engine.  Almost done.
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