Eegore wrote on Yesterday at 14:58:15:
A few people?Make no mistake, Eegore. Outside of America and Israel, everyone thinks that America and Israel are completely wrong in their decision to attack Iran. The entire world economy is turned upside down. I live in the area in the Netherlands where food is produced in greenhouses, and I already hear entrepreneurs here talking about severe food shortages this coming winter.

That means sky-high food prices.

No. The peculiar thing about a sovereign country is that it is sovereign, so you cannot simply change the government to one that suits you better.

It is also the case that the situation described in the link arose AFTER the attack on Iran. So from that, you can see that you cannot just do something like that.

According to you, what was the reason why America invaded Iran?

Fair point that “everyone” is an exaggeration—I could have phrased that more precisely. What I mean is that there is a huge amount of criticism regarding this decision outside of the US and Israel, among others, not that there is total consensus.

But your response doesn't actually address my point after that. My concern was about possible economic consequences, such as energy prices and the impact on sectors like greenhouse horticulture here in the Netherlands. That seems like a legitimate concern to me, regardless of your political stance on the conflict.

Bringing up slogans and other groups feels like a digression. We may disagree about the conflict, but that does not alter the fact that geopolitical tensions can have real economic effects. That was what my point was about. And also about the underestimation of Iran and the difficult terrain ground troops face. NATO, consisting of 32 countries, is absolutely unwilling to get involved in the conflict. That is not only because of the extremely difficult task but also because Trump failed to consult on the war. These NATO countries want nothing to do with it.

That new law that just passed does make an exception; it only concerns Palestinians and it concerns sentencing to death without the possibility of appeal.

I call that hanging.
I see it as something very extreme, like a dehumanization regulated by law. An inferior people.
This is along the same lines as how the persecution of the Jews got started.

I understand that there is a different sentiment in America, but that is exactly why I am posting this.

Are you open to diverent observed reality? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPEzuchZoyk

This law can be abused to get rid of every Palestinian who stands in the way. And that risk is not at all far-fetched.

It is about the trend, the slope we are heading down.
It is about seeing it. Because a genocide is taking place. Only through one's political standpoint do people go along with it.

You are, as it were, drawn into a collective hypnosis. There is nothing as dangerous as that.

The Iranians know that. They have all followed Gaza closely. They have no choice. A peace deal with Trump means nothing to them. They will resist ground troops tooth and nail. In fact, they are most likely prepared for it.

That is an understandable line of reasoning. But just look at how interconnected the world is. We all feel the consequences of this war (I can safely say).

And now the conflict has become much bigger than just Gaza and Lebanon.

I think you also need to understand that we in the West are much less aware of historical backgrounds than in the Arab world. They have the founding of the state of Israel etched in their collective memory. And the abuses that accompanied it. For them, Greater Israel is not a conspiracy theory. For them, it is the reality of this war. Just as for almost all Muslims in the Middle East. And they are being hurt in their religious convictions.

American soldiers have their doubts about this war, and rightly so.
But that is a totally different spirit. Iranians fight with totality, and that is why it will be a bloody, long war.

I think not everyone realizes that this is not just any war. This war could have greater consequences than the Second World War. and that is already visible in the current impact.

We can no longer afford to continue on the same path; the double-down must stop. We have to come to our senses. Literally.
If you had just walked a long hike in pristine nature, you would already be thinking with more nuance. And that is the path that humanity as a whole must walk now.


And I think, Eegore, you have experienced a war up close and that has shaped you. You see the danger and were it leads to, if you understand what I mean.

But America started this war; America has a long history of military conflicts. Your war, too, was caused by geopolitics, probably by the petrodollar system.

This goes back to Cain and Abel.
At some point, the brakes must be applied.
And that always starts with yourself, always.

Right here:

Fair point that “everyone” is an exaggeration—I could have phrased that more precisely. What I mean is that there is a huge amount of criticism regarding this decision outside of the US and Israel, among others, not that there is total consensus.

But your response doesn't actually address my point after that. My concern was about possible economic consequences, such as energy prices and the impact on sectors like greenhouse horticulture here in the Netherlands. That seems like a legitimate concern to me, regardless of your political stance on the conflict.

It has nothing to do with "fair point."

You impeached yourself with bias, which is "fair" to now judge your testimony as tainted, unreliable, and uncreditable.

We are entitled to our feelings, however that does not extend to facts.

And "your point" I did, with using your "concerns" for my analogy.

The actions of others impinging on YOUR life, by using THEIR concerns and why, like you, believe "others" should act, and behavior to "satisfy" your concerns and best interest.  

You appear to me to get all of your news from the same source, who market the same bent, because that is where their market is.

Some folks don't really want the truth, they want affirmation, which is sad, because news should never be a product to sale, but a commodity to inform people, regardless of who, or what, it exposes.

I do hold out hope with the INTERNET and AI filling a great need for information to reach people without filters, and narratives, and pushing journalist back to truth, or unemployment. Their choice.