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Ignitech ignition modules (Read 67 times)
FinnHammer
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Ignitech ignition modules
08/05/25 at 11:57:02
 
I asked the guys at Ignitech https://ignitech.cz/en/ which of their offerings would be a good one for the Savage, and this is the one they recommended: https://ignitech.cz/en/vyrobky/tcip/tcip.htm.
I ordered one and it is on my desk right now:

The price is very reasonable, 175USD, so if it functions there is no longer any reason to hunt for the original Igniter anymore, unless if you are a purist who wants to keep everything original. (if this description fits your profile, shoot me a PM, I have one for sale Wink  )

The staff is easy to communicate with and they take pride in delivering a plug and play solution, which they did.

It plugs right into the harness with the right connector and the bike starts up as it should and it runs like it did with the original ignition module.

As you see, apart from the connector to the harness, it also has a cable protuding with a serial interface connector. this is used to progran the unit.

If you want to purchase one of these modules, be sure to have a way to connect your pc to it, with either a pure serial interface, or the USB to serial. In the latter case you will need a PL2303 Prolific driver installed.
This driver is notoriously tricky, and in my case, I could not get it to work on my trusty WIN7 machine, but on the WIN11 laptop it worked well.
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FinnHammer
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Re: Ignitech ignition modules
Reply #1 - 08/05/25 at 12:19:48
 
The module mates with the programming software, and the page with the advance curve looks like this:

There are other pages where the rev. limiter can be set and where it can be chosen if you want the programmable retard to be related to the throttle position or a vacuum sensor.

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FinnHammer
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Re: Ignitech ignition modules
Reply #2 - 08/05/25 at 12:20:23
 
If one of these 2 ascessories are chosen, then the advance curves are dublicated relative to 10 different positions on these sensors, and curves with less advance can be programmed to take effect at or approaching to WOT.
You can modify the advance curves by pulling the dots on them, or by displaying them as a table, and edit the numbers depending on your temperament.

But it is best to try that yourself, and then we can talk about issues.

My problem is that I don't myself see a need to retard but I like the programmability and a nice toy it sure is.
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Re: Ignitech ignition modules
Reply #3 - 08/07/25 at 11:11:56
 
This is really cool.  I probably didn't read carefully enough, but did it perform well straight out of the box?  Or did you have to tune it?  You have some significant modifications on your bike if I recall correctly.
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Re: Ignitech ignition modules
Reply #4 - 08/07/25 at 13:53:48
 
The module arrived preprogrammed to fit the bike as it came, plug and play as advertised. These guys really know their stuff.
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Re: Ignitech ignition modules
Reply #5 - 08/08/25 at 17:44:06
 
Thanks.  That’s awesome.  Nice find!  I’ll abort my plan to find a manufacturer able to produce an affordable igniter.
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Re: Ignitech ignition modules
Reply #6 - 08/09/25 at 19:00:42
 
Wow Finn, pretty cool.  Thanks for sharing this.  

However, as it goes with all things involving a computer, I have zero understanding of how to set this contraption up.  The website doesn't provide much info.  I am probably missing the cues.  Us old-school nuts & bolts folks can get lost in the world of bytes.

What exactly is a "PL2303 Prolific Driver" and where do you get one?  I assume it is some sort of application or program.  Would I have to purchase that and then download to my computer?  I have very bad luck with that sort of stuff.  By the time I'm finished I have usually screwed up my laptop.  What does the prolific driver do?  I have a Win11 system.  Could I avoid the prolific driver?

It sounds like you have actually installed the ignition system.  Do I have that correct?  Did you install the ignition system and did the motorcycle start up and run?

The curves you posted show full advance at 6000 rpm.  Is that where you have it set, or did you somehow adjust the curve to reach full advance at 4000 rpm?

You mention timing retard via a vacuum switch or manifold pressure sensor.  Our big single develops very low manifold vacuum.  Is there a range of operation for the switch/sensor?  Under normal conditions, our big thumper may not develop sufficient vacuum to maintain full advance, it might run continuously with the timing retarded since the engine develops such little vacuum at part throttle.  Do you have any info on the switch/sensor?  Is it a MAP sensor?

Do you know anything about the rev limiter?  Is it a soft limiter?

I see they have some CDI units specifically for single cylinder engines.  Is the unit you purchased a TCI system and is it specifically for a single cylinder, or is it a CDI system?  If it's not a CDI system, is it a multi-cylinder TCI unit adapted to a single-cylinder application?  Do you happen to know if their CDI units are setup with a PC or do they use DIP switches?  A DIP setup might be more user friendly for a guy like me.

I marked up your picture.  Is the connector that I have a green arrow pointing to a direct fit for the connector plug on the motorcycle's wiring harness?  If so, how did they know what your plug looked like and which wires go to which pins?

Is the connector I have the yellow arrow pointing to a direct fit for your timing pickup plug?
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Ignitech ignition modules
Reply #7 - 08/09/25 at 19:23:27
 
I was able to root through the website, and I found additional info.  They have a lot of instructions in PDF format.  A lot of this stuff is way above my feeble capabilities.  I need to study up.

I can see their MAP sensors have a range of 1 to 2 Bar.  That's like 30 to 60 inches Hg.  Seems to me that would be used for engines with a turbo or blower.  Do I have that correct?  

This looks like the perfect candidate for a step-by-step post on exactly how to procure, setup, and install one of these ignition systems (blow by blow, wire by wire).  I don't think I could do it.  I don't have the skills.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Ignitech ignition modules
Reply #8 - 08/09/25 at 19:34:00
 
I now see that you got a 4-cylinder unit, and I suspect you are only using half of the system.  So, you end up with a waste spark on the exhaust stroke, just like the stock system.  One nice feature is you kind of get two ignition systems.  You have a spare system.  Of course, that assumes that any sort of failure doesn't occur with a component that is shared.

If you got this thing running, you are an absolute wizard.  My compliments.  I see in their description that they custom make the module with a plug that is compatible with your existing motorcycle harness.  That's certainly a nice feature.

Sorry for all the questions.  I just can't help going back through the literature.  Very interesting.  Please tell us more.
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Re: Ignitech ignition modules
Reply #9 - Today at 08:30:07
 

 Looking over this thread it appears I have some confusion.  When asked if the module required any tuning, the reply was:

The module arrived preprogrammed to fit the bike as it came, plug and play as advertised. These guys really know their stuff.

 But then there is this information:

If you got this thing running, you are an absolute wizard.  My compliments.  I see in their description that they custom make the module with a plug that is compatible with your existing motorcycle harness.  That's certainly a nice feature.


 So by "plug and play" does it mean it just plugs in easily but needs programmed?
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Re: Ignitech ignition modules
Reply #10 - Today at 09:03:25
 
Eegore wrote on Today at 08:30:07:
 Looking over this thread it appears I have some confusion.  When asked if the module required any tuning, the reply was:

[i]The module arrived preprogrammed to fit the bike as it came, plug and play as advertised. These guys really know their stuff.


 But then there is this information:

If you got this thing running, you are an absolute wizard.  My compliments.  I see in their description that they custom make the module with a plug that is compatible with your existing motorcycle harness.  That's certainly a nice feature.

 So by "plug and play" does it mean it just plugs in easily but needs programmed?[/i]


My guess would be that the module comes with default (conservative) programming of timing advance, rev limit, and that the manufacturer has pre-configured the device to the number of cylinders, and to the particular arrangement of pulses that machine's ignition timing system provides.

This last point is pretty huge, because some engines have timing rotors with a single tooth or reluctor lump, others have two, others have many, and these are arranged with different spacings as well as tooth, slot, or node counts.   There are all different ways to produce an electrical pulse stream from a rotating shaft, and different mechanical designs produce different streams.   A manufacturer who wanted to build a gadget that can be adapted to multiple applications would have to build considerable adaptability into whatever was accepting the input signal.

But I'm just guessing.  I would like to hear more about the programming.  A list of options that are under user control would be an excellent start.  
- What comes preset, and is not alterable?
- What comes preset but IS alterable.
- And what, if anything, is mandatory for the user to set up during installation?

Good job, and many thanks to FinnHammer for sharing what they have already.   I've already directed folks who were interested in Ignitech's ignitors, to this thread from other forums.
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FinnHammer
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Re: Ignitech ignition modules
Reply #11 - Today at 12:58:12
 
All:

Please excuse me for starting this up and then not giving it full attention, but here goes:

Mike: The prolific driver is a piece of software that enables the windows to connect to a serial interface via the USB port. I advice you to just get it here: https://support.lenovo.com/dk/da/downloads/ds034089-prolific-pl-2303-driver-s... install it, and forget about it. It will work ok with this ignition module. (it did not work flawlessly with the MIDI interfaces I have worked with, but that is another story)
I don't understand why the module is equipped with a serial interface instead of a USB interface directly, but I guess the guys at Ignitech have their reasons.
When I started to communicate with Ignitech, I showed them the scope shots of the output from the trigger coil, photos of the interface plug and a drawing showing which pin went to where in the harness.
They are obviously used to work with all sorts of bikes and are accostumed to the plugs and sockets used. They have them in stock.
I also told them that the lowest advance possible is 3 deg.BTC, as you have shown, and that the maximum advance possible is 37deg.BTC.
With this information they delivered a module that was pre programmed to work with the single slug reluctor timing plug that is equipped on the early LS650.

The later ones, with a longer slug will quite possibly need another firmware installed by Ignitech.

So, in short: If you own an early LS650 you can buy this module, plug it into your bike and run it as it is. No further programming is needed to run just fine. It will come with an advance curve that tops up with 35deg. advance at 7000 RPM which is fine.

However, the reason to go into all this was a desire to be able to fine tune the advance curve. Mike has a desire to take some of the advance out at WOT, and there may be other wishes too.

What can be changed and what can not:
Due to the ease of programming the changes into the module, and supported by the fact that it can easily be retrieved again from the module, I think the module is built in 2 sections: One section is programmed into a Microprocessor, and is the part of the module that constantly compares the input from the trigger coil and produces the timing signals for the ignition coil. I will call this the "Core". Then there is the data we read into the module with instructions of how to advance the ignition relative to the RPM. This data is probably stored in a PROM Programmable Read Only Memory.
Then there are the 2 inputs which can handle either a vacuum sensor and a Throttle position Sensor to add info about how to retard the timing during WOT.
The core is constantly reading from the PROM and the 2 inputs to produce the desired spark timing.
There are also 2 outputs which can generate all sorts of usefull data, like drive a servo motor to modify the inled port of a rotary valve 2stroke (This has been done) others have stuff in the exhaust that can be driven by the module.

As you all can perhaps gather, I will have to record a video about the programming interface, because it has a lot of features, many of which I still do not understand, but the ones that I do, are hard to explain with just words and pictures. Stay tuned.

Oh, and by the way, the rev. limiter is of the hard type. No warning other than that of the ignition cutting out the moment the engine hits the programmed level. Not so elegant. Ignitech caters to the racing community, and I guess they don't care for the finesse of a soft limit. If it was a popular demand, I have no doubt they could program it into the Core.
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