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Gearing Comparison (Read 35 times)
ThumperPaul
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Gearing Comparison
12/14/24 at 09:17:01
 
Too much time on my hands I guess.  Using the gearing commander website, I gathered data for my 3 bikes.

At the top of the page, you can select the bike and it will populate the sprocket sizes and gear ratios.

In the comparison spreadsheet, I did some calculations.

Reading the internet, Final Drive Ratio is defined as "rear sprocket teeth / front sprocket teeth".  But is this truly the final drive ratio?  Help me out here please in my understanding and nomenclature...

What is it called when you multiply the "sprocket ratio" (as I call it) times the gear ratio?  To me, this is the final drive ratio.  What have I actually calculated?  I realize I've totally ignored the primary drive ratio.

Showing my ignorance, what am I trying to describe?

https://www.gearingcommander.com/

Anyway, I found all this interesting. They all 'finalize' around 2.6 in what I probably incorrectly refer to as the Final Drive Ratio.

See reduction % gear over gear...  If you think the jump from 1st to 2nd on the LS650 is big, the Shadow 750 is even wider (yes, I've missed 2nd more than once).

I started playing with all this while considered going from a 46T ot 43T rear sprocket on the Vulcan S.  I was thinking to get the RPMs down at cruising speed and take some of the 'edge' off and close ratio gear box.  As I compare it on paper and as I've gotten more used to riding the Vulcan S, I think I'm just going to leave it as is.  With its short stroking 8,000 RPM redline, its just getting going when the thumper and v-twin are starting to run out of breath.

I backed into the table speed by gear numbers by finding the top gear PRM that resulted in a top speed of approximately 75mph.  I wanted to keep things relative.
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« Last Edit: 12/14/24 at 10:51:08 by ThumperPaul »  

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faffi
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Re: Gearing Comparison
Reply #1 - 12/14/24 at 14:21:27
 
Not quite sure I followed your intentions/questions, so please excuse me if what I will type here is not the information you wanted.

Final drive gearing is always the ratio for the final reduction. The total drive-train, from crank to wheel, can have multiple reductions, but mostly motorcycles have two or three reductions beside the gearbox. For instance, the the LS650 and 650 Vulcan S have two (crank/clutch and output shaft/rear wheel), my Virago 750 have three (crank/clutch, output/shaft and shaft/final drive), the Shadow two or three, depending on whether it has chain or shaft final drive.

The overall gearing is found by multiplying all the reductions. Note that some reductions can be negative, causing an overdrive condition, but usually this only found in the upper gear(s), not in the primary, secondary (if present) or final reduction.

Overall gearing, together with wheel circumference, determine how fast a bike (or car etc) can theoretically travel at the rev limiter/redline. The overall gearing will differ for each gear, and so will the maximum theoretical speed. The change in rpm will always be the same for any given gearbox when you go up or down a gear, regardless of what you do to the primary, secondary and/or final drive ratios. By that I mean if your engine drop from 8000 to 5500 rpm when upshifting from 1st to 2nd gear, it will always have the same drop, whatever you do to the final drive ratio, which is what we typically alter.

However, the speed you will attain at those revs will alter with the final drive ratio. So let us say you have a stock gearing allowing you to go 40 mph @ 8000 rpm in first, then it will do 58 mph in 2nd gear at 8000 rpm for the example above. Now, if you alter the final drive gearing so that you now hit 8 grand at 30 mph, 2nd gear will only do a bit under 44 mph at 8000 rpm. But just as 2nd would need 5500 rpm to do 40 mph with stock gearing, you will now need 5500 to do just 30 mph. The difference in maximum speed between first and second gear have dropped from 18 to a little under 14 mph with the gearing change.

Any gear reduction will improve torque reaching the rear wheel. Let is say you have a gearbox with a 3:1 ratio, where 1st is 3:1 and top gear is 1:1. This gives you 3 times as much potential torque at the rear wheel in first gear compared to top gear. Engines with wide spread of torque typically have wide ration gearboxes (2.5:1 or greater) while peaky engines tend to have narrow-ratio gearboxes (2:1 or less). This is because the former have power/torque to pull itself back up to higher revs despite big drops in rpm with each gear-change, whereas a peaky engine will "fall on its face" if rpm drop a lot. The irony is that you end up with a bike that will do well over 100 mph in 1st gear, with another 5 to go. This is a liability in town or if you want to tour two-up with luggage, going over steep mountains, but fine for race tracks.

Not sure if I managed to make sense of this at all. But most cars will have a 1:1 ratio between the engine and gearbox, while 1:1 used to be the most common ratio for top gear. Now, most cars - and many bikes - feature one or two overdrive gears. Overdrive only means that speed going out will be greater than the speed coming in. Or put it differently; the engine revs will drop with an overdrive. But the gearbox itself does not matter much - it is the overall gearing that matter. For instance, a vehicle with a 0.8:1 overdrive with an overall ratio of 2.5:1 must rev faster for any given speed than a vehicle with a 1.2:1 top gear with an overall ratio of 2:1. Provided similar wheel diameters.




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ThumperPaul
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Re: Gearing Comparison
Reply #2 - 12/14/24 at 14:42:07
 
So what have I calculated with:

“Sprocket ratio” X “Gear Ratio”  = is there a name for it or is it just a part of a larger equation?

I get the dynamics, but Thanks for being much clearer than myself!  I’m trying to clean up my nomenclature and vocabulary.

Most of what I read says the Final Drive Ratio is simply the relationship between the sprockets.  This seems incomplete and technically inaccurate to me.  I guess I’m just calculating an incomplete “Overall Gearing Ratio”?

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ThumperPaul
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Re: Gearing Comparison
Reply #3 - 12/14/24 at 15:10:53
 
OK.  I went back to the spreadsheet and added the Primary Drive Ratio for all 3 bikes.

I calculated the "Overall Gear Ratio" = Primary X Final X Gear

Have I got this right?  Adding the Primary Gear Ratio gave things quite a different look.

EDIT:  Whoops.  Left out the rear wheel/tire diameter.  How can I incorporate this?
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badwolf
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Re: Gearing Comparison
Reply #4 - 12/14/24 at 15:21:50
 
primary drive raito = crankshaft to clutch hub ( input to tranny )

final drive raito = front to rear sprocket or pulleys, that is what you can change

overall drive raito = crankshaft to rear wheel

The only thing you can change is the final drive gearing, front and rear sprocket, or pulleys.
On Moto GP bikes they can change both primary drive, final drive, and even individual gears to better match each racetrack. They have a budget in the millions and engineers and techs to work all that out.
Us mortals are stuck with compromising for our riding habits or wants.
I changed my final drive ratio from the stock 2.98 to 1 to 2.6 to 1. Dropping my rpm from 4100 down to 3400 at 60 mph. Why ? I always ride solo, and on the Interstates for thousands of miles. (158 K )
If I rode in town all the time, and was wanting to burn off traffic lights I  would have gone the other way.
It's up to your riding style, if you want to have 3 low gears to burn, and 2 higher gears to cruise, you would have to change the tranny. $$$$$$$
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Gearing Comparison
Reply #5 - 12/14/24 at 15:54:38
 
Thanks guys.

Badwolf - I realize I can really only play with the sprockets and maybe wheels/tire sizes.

I'm not sure where I was going trying to compare the 3 bikes.  There must be something I can take away from this.  

This whole comparison came about when considering going from a 46T to 43T rear on the Vulcan S to get the RPMs down at cruising (highway) speed.

I'd be going from 46/15 = 3.07  TO 43/15 = 2.87.  And after all this, I think I'm going to stick with stock 46/15.   Shocked
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