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Help! My bike wont run! (Read 230 times)
MrMangoTime
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #15 - 10/30/24 at 18:20:59
 
ohiomoto wrote on 10/30/24 at 17:30:45:
Sounds like a bad petcock to me.


No its not the petcock. I've checked and double checked it. It runs off of engine vacuum and on prime just fine. and the carb is getting plenty of gas.
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #16 - 10/31/24 at 05:11:20
 
A good thorough cleaning never hurts as long as you can get it all put back together correctly.  If you use the dip bath method, make sure you remove all the o-rings and rubber parts (diaphragm and TEV diaphragm).

Good diagram of the carb in post #2 —>   http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1098869040

Removing Air/Fuel Mix Screw —>  http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1350749896/0

If you decide to clean it or not, you have to get that A/F mix screw back in functional condition.
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #17 - 10/31/24 at 05:26:51
 
If you decide to make a paperweight out of the stock carb, here’s a post on my trials and tribulations installing the Keihin-style PWK38 —>

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1714330191

A good starting point for the jetting is where I quit tinkering with mine:

Pilot Jet #32
Main Jet #125
E-clip in the middle groove on the needle (it comes this way when you buy it)

The manufacturer installed jets are HUGE.  You can’t use those and you have to buy extra pilot and main jets.  I’ve had good luck with the cheap jet kits you can buy on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07MMJV6BT?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #18 - 10/31/24 at 05:38:14
 
If you decide to go the Mikuni VM36/38 route, Lancer sells a complete kit.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1338654578
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MrMangoTime
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #19 - 10/31/24 at 13:52:02
 
[quote author=6D514C54495C4B69584C55390 link=1730160337/15#18 date=1730378294]If you decide to go the Mikuni VM36/38 route, Lancer sells a complete kit.


I was looking around today and saw one of these from Murray Carbs. Heard anything about these kits?

https://murrayscarbs.com/product/suzuki-boulevard-s40-ls650-savage-mikuni-vm36-c
arb-kit/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1Yy5BhD-ARIsAI0RbXY8DfmLnRHWErfKA_xCwMC_PTdI
U2CD9L8RQZI2vDQDZ8XoYgTgDaAaAsN9EALw_wcB#reviews
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #20 - 10/31/24 at 14:32:48
 
When I had my old S40 with a Mikuni VM36, it was from Murray’s carbs.

His jet set up (tune) is very different than Lancer’s typical recommended set up.  I ended up rejetting using Lancer’s guidance for the main jet and it was much better.  Murray swears by his setup, but the main jet is too lean (#165).  Lancer recommends somewhere between 180-200 depending on exhaust, elevation, etc.  I rejetted to #200 and liked it better.

SurvivingPhilly has a Murray VM36 carb and he also rejetted his with the #200 and liked it better.

Murray can be a crusty old bird when you start asking questions or question his setup.  Defensive you might say.  I probably rubbed him the wrong way too.  He also makes the exposed length of his throttle cables about 1” too long and gets really defensive about that.  He ended up making 3 for me until I got one that was workable (it was the principle of the matter).  He only charged me for 1 (like $15).  That’s a good deal and he custom makes the cables (nice quality).  I was able to modify and shorten the other 2 cables he sent, so I have a couple backups now.

He’s reputable and stands behind his work.  Even if you gotta argue with him a bit.
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ohiomoto
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #21 - 10/31/24 at 18:23:50
 
MrMangoTime wrote on 10/30/24 at 18:20:59:
ohiomoto wrote on 10/30/24 at 17:30:45:
Sounds like a bad petcock to me.


No its not the petcock. I've checked and double checked it. It runs off of engine vacuum and on prime just fine. and the carb is getting plenty of gas.

So many words...I must have missed the part where you checked the petcock.  Sorry.
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JOG
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #22 - 11/01/24 at 00:19:10
 
If you can find a tap the size and thread of the AF screw you might want to chase the threads in the carburetor. If you can't find a Bottom Hole tap, you can cut the taper off of the regular tap. If you can't Find a tap, a bolt with a slot cut into it, with the slot angled such that the deep side of the slot is to the left of the center of the bolt will chase threads. I've got several of those in my collection of taps. The harder the bolt, the better, but the carburetor is soft, so less than Grade 8 would probably be okay.
You can dress up threads on a bolt with a nut strategically sliced through, also.
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #23 - 11/01/24 at 12:37:55
 
All I can say is trying to tap it down in that rabbit hole without screwing it up is virtually impossible.  Certainly for me it was…

I wanted to use the Torx bit method described in the Tech post (shared above), but I never got that far.  Taking as many precautions as I thought reasonably necessary, the drill bit decided to take a walk and I “wollered the fak” out of it.  Good bye carb!  I saved all the guts and good stuff and chunked the carb body in the trash!  The End.
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #24 - 11/03/24 at 14:13:47
 
I rebuilt my S40 (2011) again this week.  STILL will not run without the choke on full.  Driving me nuts!  Petcock replaced, all jets cleaned/replaced, fresh fuel, tried the fuel/air screw from 1.5 to 3 turns.  When I try to ease off the choke, or slightly hit the throttle, it will sputter and die.  I think I might just break down and get a new carb.

So I spoke to Murray and his son-in-law yesterday.  Told him I wanted to get a carb for my S40, but wanted to ask a few questions.  He was pretty rude (my carbs are perfect out of the box, if anyone has a complaint, they don't know what they are doing)--I understand having pride in your product, but before I spend $400, I deserve to be treated with a little courtesy.  Would be curious to hear about other experiences with Murray.
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #25 - 11/03/24 at 15:18:43
 
Like I said...Murray is a crusty old guy that gets very defensive.  We got into a pretty good argument about the exposed length of the cable.  He said, "nobody else complained".  SurvivingPhilly also had the same problem with the cable length from Murray.  My guess is that the people that buy his carbs are newbies, don't know carbs, and don't understand a sloppy cable that's too long.

If you want the Mikuni VM36 carb, I suggest buying Lancer's kit.  Lancer is on the forum and he supports what he sells.
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #26 - 11/04/24 at 05:25:11
 
How would I contact Lancer to get the kit?  Can you please help me understand why some recommend the VM36 and others suggest the 38?  THANKS!!  Murray told me the sliding carb is much better than the stock version, do you agree?
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #27 - 11/04/24 at 05:30:20
 
I’m guessing you meant rebuilt your “carb” and not a complete bike tear down and rebuild.  ??

Before you venture into the world of a Mikuni VM36 slide carb with all its nuances, I suggest you learn the stock carb and how it works and needs to be cleaned and reassembled correctly.  The slightest reassembly mistake can and will cause major issues…

Let rewind and get some background and details…

How long have you had the bike?

Did it run reasonably well when you got it?

What prompted you to rebuild the carb the 1st time?

What did the bike do after the first rebuild?

So you’ve done a 2nd carb rebuild…

Where are you getting your carb kits?

What jets do you have installed?

Did you clean and/or replace the TEV?

What’s the process you followed to clean the carb?  Simply squirting things with a can of carb cleaner won’t work.  You gotta get all the gunk out of the tiny air passages.

Are you sure the diaphragm and slide are in good condition?  Simply orienting the diaphragm incorrectly under the dome will cause issues.

Did you check the float valve height?  If the float bowl isn’t filling up to the proper level, it will go into fuel starvation mode.

Did you reassemble the needle correctly?  That can be a bit tricky.  Are you using the stock white spacer?  Or did you modify it or use thinner spacers (washers)?  Are you using an authentic Mikuni needle or some unmarked needle that came out of a cheap eBay carb kit?

About the only thing good in those cheap carb kits might be the float bowl gasket.  All the other unmarked junk in those kits is a crapshoot.

Do you have everything buttoned up tight (no air leaks) and the air filter installed?  An air leak at the intake boot or manifold can create an overly rich condition.  It can be something this simple.

We’ll need some background and details to get started.
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #28 - 11/04/24 at 05:55:36
 
 

I’m guessing you meant rebuilt your “carb” and not a complete bike tear down and rebuild. YES-I GOT A KIT ON AMAZON, R157

How long have you had the bike?  TWO MONTHS AND I'VE HAD THIS ISSUE SINCE DAY ONE.

Did it run reasonably well when you got it?  NOT UNLESS I HAD THE CHOKE FULL AND OPEND THE AIR/FUEL SCREW TO ABOUT 4 TURNS

What prompted you to rebuild the carb the 1st time?  TRY TO CORRECT THE PROBLEMS.

What did the bike do after the first rebuild?  EXACT SAME THING.

So you’ve done a 2nd carb rebuild… YES

Where are you getting your carb kits?  AMAZON

What jets do you have installed?  STOCK SIZES, NOT CUSTOMIZATION

Did you clean and/or replace the TEV?  NOT, I CAN'T GET ONE OF THE ****SCREWS OUT AND I STRIPPED IT IN FRUSTRATION--I'M THINKING I SHOULD CUT THE HEAD OFF THE SCREW, CLEAN THE TEV, AND THEN PUT THE COVER BACK ON WITH THE REMAINING TWO SREWS AND SOME LIQUID GASKET?

What’s the process you followed to clean the carb?  Simply squirting things with a can of carb cleaner won’t work.  You gotta get all the gunk out of the tiny air passages.  I USED CARB CLEANER, LONG SKINNY BRUSHES AND BLEW IT ALL OUT WITH COMPRESSED AIR.  VERY HARD TO CLEAN THE PILOT JET, SO I PUT IN A NEW ONE FROM THE KIT.  

Are you sure the diaphragm and slide are in good condition?  YES Simply orienting the diaphragm incorrectly under the dome will cause issues.

Did you check the float valve height?  NO If the float bowl isn’t filling up to the proper level, it will go into fuel starvation mode.

Did you reassemble the needle correctly?  CLEANED AND REUSED THE OLD ONE  That can be a bit tricky.  Are you using the stock white spacer?  Or did you modify it or use thinner spacers (washers)?  Are you using an authentic Mikuni needle or some unmarked needle that came out of a cheap eBay carb kit?

About the only thing good in those cheap carb kits might be the float bowl gasket.  All the other unmarked junk in those kits is a crapshoot.  MOST OF THE ITEMS WERE UNMARKED AND I WAS SUSPICIOUS

Do you have everything buttoned up tight (no air leaks) and the air filter installed?  I HAVE BEEN TESTING IT WITHOUT CONNECTING TO THE AIR BOX.   GOOD-TIGHT CONNECTION TO THE MANIFOLD GASKET.  An air leak at the intake boot or manifold can create an overly rich condition.  It can be something this simple.

We’ll need some background and details to get started.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!!!  I THINK I SHOULD BUY A KIT THAT HAS THE PROPER MARKINGS ON ALL THE PARTS, CAN YOU PLEASE RECOMMEND ONE?  
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Help! My bike wont run!
Reply #29 - 11/04/24 at 06:04:03
 
See my reply #18 for a link to Lancer’s carbs.  You’ll need to reply to that post since you can’t private message him until you have 10 posts/comments.

There are lots of discussions on the forum about a slide carb vs stock CV carb.  I suggest reading many or all of them.  The Mikuni VM36/38 slide carbs offer better throttle response and can provide more top end power if tuned correctly.  The stock CV carb is a good everyday riding carb.  For a stock bike and normal everyday riding, there isn’t a big performance difference between the two carbs.  If you soup up the bike with a more aggressive cam, bigger high comp piston, better flowing exhaust, bigger valves, porting and so on - the slide carb is the way to go.

I sense you aren’t at the experience level to be doing major modifications and just getting the stock carb performing correctly is already challenging enough.  If you are just learning to wrench and tune, start with the stock carb.  The VM36/38 carb isn’t exactly plug and play so you’d struggle with it as well.

The VM36 is better suited to stock.  The 38 perhaps if you have some performance mods.  That’s debatable, but bigger isn’t always better.  I think a lot can be said for the Venturi effect of a smaller bore carb.  Some will disagree with me.

I suggest fixing your stock carb for starters.  It will give you a better base understanding and build confidence once you get it right.
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