Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Bike Won't Start (Read 174 times)
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #15 - 01/27/24 at 12:19:47
 
Holder Set.  I can't get it off the housing - electrical screw is too long to slide it through to the inside and can't get the angle.  Not going to tear it down any further.  Good enough to take a peek.
Back to top
 

Starter_Holder_Set.jpeg
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #16 - 01/27/24 at 12:30:06
 
Push the rubber bushing out with the bolt still inside the bushing.
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #17 - 01/27/24 at 12:33:38
 
Rotor. Armature, Bushings, Commutator...or whatever else this called.
Back to top
 

Starter_Rotor.jpeg
  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #18 - 01/27/24 at 12:36:50
 
Dave wrote on 01/27/24 at 12:30:06:
Push the rubber bushing out with the bolt still inside the bushing.


I tried.  The connector is too long and the whole thing comes into contact with the shaft holder in the housing.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #19 - 01/27/24 at 13:02:30
 
The only thing I see that looks weird is the sealant on the end of the rotor, and the erratic coloring of the commutators (the carbon is normally spread evenly across the copper.

Has that sealant been rubbing on something - or is that just how they made it?

You could spend some time with an ohm meter and test the windings on the rotor....if you found an open circuit that would be your problem.  It is likely that would cause a dead spot - but the starter would turn on the other windings.

Clean up the commutators with some fine sandpaper, clean it off, and put the thing back together and see if it works.
Back to top
 

IMG_2985.JPG

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #20 - 01/27/24 at 13:21:53
 
That's kinda what I thought.  Poke around with the ohm setting on the multimeter.  I don't see the sealant you're talking about.

I'll clean up the commutators too.  I am interested to see if it can be rejuvenated.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #21 - 01/28/24 at 11:54:49
 
Well I got mine back together....and it still works!

Getting it back together is a bit of a challenge!  Seems like 6 hands might have been "handy" to have.
Back to top
 

IMG_2989.JPG

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #22 - 01/28/24 at 12:02:11
 
Haha Dave.  I cleaned mine up and put it back together this morning.  No luck.  The internal winding must be fried.  Starter got warm, but nothing.  The gear/shaft moves freely by hand.

Yeah, I ended up using 4 screws to wedge and prop open the coil springs and get it back together.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4408
Honolulu
Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #23 - 01/28/24 at 12:33:02
 
Wow!  Thanks for all the great pictures.  Very interesting.  The thing looks OK visually.  Certainly doesn't look "fried".  I would check each commutator segment to make sure it is not grounded to the shaft.  The factory manual says to check "any two segments at various places (to test for open)".  I don't understand that.  Seems to me you would expect each loop to be connected to commutator segments 90 degrees apart since the hot brushes and ground brushes are 90 degrees apart.  Any of you electrical types know anything about that?

I have a good starter.  I should take it apart and wring it out.
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #24 - 01/28/24 at 15:19:23
 
It's a door stopper now, Mike.  Lol.  Even if I could figure out how to correctly check it for resistance, I can't fix it.  I did poke around with the multimeter, but I couldn't tell what I was really doing.  I'm done with it.  Maybe I can get a $10 core charge return from AutoZone for it.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
verslagen1
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28890
L.A. California
Gender: male
Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #25 - 01/28/24 at 17:21:34
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 01/28/24 at 12:33:02:
I would check each commutator segment to make sure it is not grounded to the shaft.  The factory manual says to check "any two segments at various places (to test for open)".  I don't understand that.  Seems to me you would expect each loop to be connected to commutator segments 90 degrees apart since the hot brushes and ground brushes are 90 degrees apart.  Any of you electrical types know anything about that?


There's not a lot you personally can do, other than replacing the brushes and cleaning up the commutator.

Checking the coils for internal burns is all that's left.
If you look at the brushes, they alternate between positive and ground at 90° apart. take the probes and touch the commutator about 90° apart to see if each coil has continuity.  Each one should have the same resistance, it won't be much, 1 or 2 ohms. And should show infinite to the shaft.
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
och
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 629

Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #26 - 01/28/24 at 18:47:50
 
Couple of things.

First and foremost, when you replace the starter, make sure the o-ring fits tight when you push it back in, or you will have an oil leak. But you already know this from the previous threads.

That being said, there is something weird going on between the battery/starter dying. It happened to me 2-3 years ago - it was a hot summer day and I went to make a quick errands run on the bike. It started just fine without any signs of weak battery. I finished my errands, and as I was sitting at a red light the bike suddenly died completely. No lights, no crank, no signs of life at all.

Got it over to the shop, the first thing the guy tested was the battery and it was completely dead and would not take a charge. And it was a quality Yuasa AGM battery, only about 2 years old at that time, very strange for it to die suddenly the way it did.

First order of business, got the battery replaced before we could diagnose everything else. Next, turned out to be a fried starter. At that time, the bike had maybe 3k on the clock, so also weird for it to fail.

This leads me to believe there is some sort of a pattern, especially that your issue is similar. I'm thinking maybe the battery failed internally, and created a voltage spike that fried the starter - but then the starter wasn't even being engaged when the bike died.

I also needed the left hand switch assembly replaced, as one of my front turn signals wasn't working, and the headlamp would not switch from low to high beam. They were all working just fine before the incident.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #27 - 01/28/24 at 19:14:27
 
I hate electrical problems.  This battery and starter is like the chicken and the egg debate.  Essentially they killed each other is what I chalk it up to.

I chased an electrical issue all over on a 50cc scooter once.  In the end, the taillight socket was causing all sorts of haywire issues.

Thanks guys.  Appreciate all the help.  Learned quite a bit about starting motors that I’ve never given much thought to.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
verslagen1
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28890
L.A. California
Gender: male
Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #28 - 01/28/24 at 20:08:26
 
interesting, there have been a number of starter stuck on cases due to a stuck relay.  most wouldn't notice a starter continuously running and that would drain a battery and tax the charging system.
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
och
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 629

Re: Bike Won't Start
Reply #29 - 01/29/24 at 04:19:06
 
It never occurred to me that my starter might have been stuck on and thats what fried the battery.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
10/07/24 at 11:21:12



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Bike Won't Start


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.