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zevenenergie Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1273 The Netherlands Den Haag	Re: Why Reply #15 - 12/27/23 at 15:20:43 One thing is certain, while Biden is being embalmed for his re-election, the situation in the Middle East is escalating.
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WebsterMark

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Re: Why
Reply #16 - 12/28/23 at 06:04:39

If Trump is surprised in the primaries with losses and fades away, Biden will drop out. He all but said so. I still think it’s a strong possibility that regardless of what happens with Republicans, Biden won’t run. Florida just fixed it so there will be no voting in the Democratic primary because they don’t want to face the obvious which is no one wants Biden except his family members who need pardons.

Regarding the Middle East, I’m not sure what happens next. Hamas won’t surrender and Israel won’t stop. Israel will eventually kill every member of Hamas, but then what?

The only way peace was possible after World War II when Germany and Japan were completely devastated, was because the Americans, British, etc. got together and rebuilt those countries. (Set aside the Russians in East Germany) That’s why any of us can fly to Berlin or Tokyo today. The difference now is, the entire world is using the Palestinians in Gaza as pawns which is different than back in 1945. Even if Israel rebuilt Garza, and occupied it in order to create an honest and prosperous society, ( as was done with Germany and Japan) outside forces would keep moving those pawns to start another war.

I think it’s possible Israel goes to war with Iran.

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Re: Why
Reply #17 - 12/28/23 at 12:14:37

A new world Order.
That term is probably familiar to you.

China and the rest of the world did not like that.

They are no longer raving Chinamen. 70% of young people in China go to university, for every dollar the Chinese buy 5 times as much army as America. They control all non-Western countries. They control all the resources in the world.
China, Russia and Iran work closely together in military strategic areas.

And on top of that, they have all leading Western political leaders firmly by the balls, be it through economic blackmail or actual bribery.

Their goal was world dominance and in the battle for Taiwan this will also be achieved in the military field.

Israel is already as good as defeated, the eastern alliance was never about Gaza or the cause of the Palestinians. It's about ending Western dominance in the world.

Just look what's happening in the Red Sea Your ships are being attacked by African natives (With modern weapons)
Of course not, this is Russia, Iran and China attacking the American and western ships.

Slowly but surely the West is being driven out without NATO being able to intervene. From Ukraine, From Israel, From Africa, And soon also from Taiwan.

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 12912 Gender:	Re: Why Reply #18 - 12/28/23 at 14:41:57 The West will not go quietly into the night and Israel is far from defeated. Yes, liberalism has feminized some of American’s men but not all by any means. I would not bet against us quite yet.
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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28416 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Why Reply #19 - 12/28/23 at 15:05:25 WebsterMark wrote on 12/28/23 at 14:41:57: The West will not go quietly into the night and Israel is far from defeated. Yes, liberalism has feminized some of American’s men but not all by any means. I would not bet against us quite yet. I read that as a movie trailer voice-over "In A World Where..."
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zevenenergie

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Re: Why
Reply #20 - 12/29/23 at 02:27:15

WebsterMark wrote on 12/28/23 at 14:41:57:

The West will not go quietly into the night and Israel is far from defeated.
Yes, liberalism has feminized some of American’s men but not all by any means. I would not bet against us quite yet.

With the two aircraft carriers near Israel, America hopes to save what can be saved. Please note that the ships are there for political reasons.

If America still had balls there would be 4 aircraft carriers near Taiwan. There it makes sense to send a clear message.

Taiwan has become a leader in IT and is a powerhouse in the production of microchips, the building blocks of electronics without which computers, satellites, cars, planes and washing machines do not work. A huge share of this is produced by Taiwanese companies and due to the rapidly increasing demand, there is a worldwide shortage of microchips, which is causing car factories to come to a standstill.

What can you get in Israel?

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Re: Why
Reply #21 - 12/29/23 at 04:27:54

With the two aircraft carriers near Israel, America hopes to save what can be saved. Please note that the ships are there for political reasons.
By definition, the military is political.

Israel is a functioning, prosperous society governed by the consent of the people which makes it a rarity in that part of the world. I have no issues with a certain level of military action against Middle East regimes.

I do have an issue with direct military action against China over Taiwan. If the two biggest kids on the block are going to fight over something, I’d rather it not be over Taiwan. We can build our own microchips.

The EU gets their computer hardware from Taiwan, how come they aren’t sending their fleet? Why is it always us?

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Re: Why
Reply #22 - 12/29/23 at 04:28:31

Serowbot wrote on 12/28/23 at 15:05:25:

WebsterMark wrote on 12/28/23 at 14:41:57:

The West will not go quietly into the night and Israel is far from defeated.
Yes, liberalism has feminized some of American’s men but not all by any means. I would not bet against us quite yet.

I read that as a movie trailer voice-over
"In A World Where..."

Grin

I’ll bet it was a good movie! But, was it a movie or a documentary?

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zevenenergie

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Re: Why
Reply #23 - 12/29/23 at 05:45:22

WebsterMark wrote on 12/29/23 at 04:27:54:

With the two aircraft carriers near Israel, America hopes to save what can be saved. Please note that the ships are there for political reasons.
By definition, the military is political.

Israel is a functioning, prosperous society governed by the consent of the people which makes it a rarity in that part of the world. I have no issues with a certain level of military action against Middle East regimes.

I do have an issue with direct military action against China over Taiwan. If the two biggest kids on the block are going to fight over something, I’d rather it not be over Taiwan. We can build our own microchips.

The EU gets their computer hardware from Taiwan, how come they aren’t sending their fleet? Why is it always us?

I wonder why it's always you guys.
We make the best and most advanced chip making machines in the world. We have been given an export ban to China by you, under penalty of economic sanctions.

Why aren't we there? We did not want to take over Ukraine through the so-called elimination of corruption in Ukraine. We wanted to maintain the balance we had with Putin.
It is Europe that runs all the risk of escalation here, not America.
The war in Ukraine was forced upon us by you.

We have been against the oppression and slaughter of the Palestinians for many years.

Most people in Europe see Amirika as an extremely warlike country whose sole motivation is to protect the petrol dollar and the associated highly profitable arms industry.

And we see your NGOs as a serious threat to our democracy or what is left of it. And we see the culture of your mega-large companies bringing very undesirable changes to important social structures in our country.

Your ambassador here, intervenes when we introduce laws that go against American interests. For example, we are not allowed to downsize our airport, which causes enormous inconvenience throughout the country, and we have recently been obliged to purchase liquid gas from you, with all the billions in costs for the associated infrastructure.
We don't even experience that much pressure from China.

However, you think that we still embrace you as our savior.

Not that we weren't grateful to you for that. To this day, the burial sites of fallen American soldiers are kept in tip-top condition, with flowers and all.
We are also very realistic in that regard.

But what has come from America in recent decades and also what you are doing on the world stage is not appreciated here in Europe. And then I express myself mildly.

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Re: Why
Reply #24 - 12/29/23 at 06:00:03

zevenenergie wrote on 12/29/23 at 05:45:22:

WebsterMark wrote on 12/29/23 at 04:27:54:

With the two aircraft carriers near Israel, America hopes to save what can be saved. Please note that the ships are there for political reasons.
By definition, the military is political.

Israel is a functioning, prosperous society governed by the consent of the people which makes it a rarity in that part of the world. I have no issues with a certain level of military action against Middle East regimes.

I do have an issue with direct military action against China over Taiwan. If the two biggest kids on the block are going to fight over something, I’d rather it not be over Taiwan. We can build our own microchips.

The EU gets their computer hardware from Taiwan, how come they aren’t sending their fleet? Why is it always us?

I wonder why it's always you guys.
We make the best and most advanced chip making machines in the world. We have been given an export ban to China by you, under penalty of economic sanctions.

Why aren't we there? We did not want to take over Ukraine through the so-called elimination of corruption in Ukraine. We wanted to maintain the balance we had with Putin.
It is Europe that runs all the risk of escalation here, not America.
The war in Ukraine was forced upon us by you.

We have been against the oppression and slaughter of the Palestinians for many years.

Most people in Europe see Amirika as an extremely warlike country whose sole motivation is to protect the petrol dollar and the associated highly profitable arms industry.

And I haven't even mentioned the disruptive effect of refugees entering Europe en masse as a result of the conflicts you are causing all over the world.

And we see your NGOs as a serious threat to our democracy or what is left of it. And we see the culture of your mega-large companies bringing very undesirable changes to important social structures in our country.

Your ambassador here, intervenes when we introduce laws that go against American interests. For example, we are not allowed to downsize our airport, which causes enormous inconvenience throughout the country, and we have recently been obliged to purchase liquid gas from you, with all the billions in costs for the associated infrastructure.
We don't even experience that much pressure from China.

However, you think that we still embrace you as our savior.

Not that we weren't grateful to you for that. To this day, the burial sites of fallen American soldiers are kept in tip-top condition, with flowers and all.
We are also very realistic in that regard.

But what has come from America in recent decades and also what you are doing on the world stage is not appreciated here in Europe. And then I express myself mildly.

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WebsterMark

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Re: Why
Reply #25 - 12/30/23 at 06:28:58

zevenenergie wrote on 12/29/23 at 06:00:03:

zevenenergie wrote on 12/29/23 at 05:45:22:

WebsterMark wrote on 12/29/23 at 04:27:54:

With the two aircraft carriers near Israel, America hopes to save what can be saved. Please note that the ships are there for political reasons.
By definition, the military is political.

Israel is a functioning, prosperous society governed by the consent of the people which makes it a rarity in that part of the world. I have no issues with a certain level of military action against Middle East regimes.

I do have an issue with direct military action against China over Taiwan. If the two biggest kids on the block are going to fight over something, I’d rather it not be over Taiwan. We can build our own microchips.

The EU gets their computer hardware from Taiwan, how come they aren’t sending their fleet? Why is it always us?

I wonder why it's always you guys.
We make the best and most advanced chip making machines in the world. We have been given an export ban to China by you, under penalty of economic sanctions.

So don’t obey. Sell your machines to the Chinese. Just don’t cry about the consequences.

Why aren't we there? We did not want to take over Ukraine through the so-called elimination of corruption in Ukraine. We wanted to maintain the balance we had with Putin.
It is Europe that runs all the risk of escalation here, not America.
The war in Ukraine was forced upon us by you.

Then do something about it. By maintaining the balance you mean accept whatever the big guys force on you.

We have been against the oppression and slaughter of the Palestinians for many years.

[color=#ff0000]You’ve been against imagined oppression and slaughter of Palestinians as long as you imagine it is from Israel. When any other entity actually does slaughter Palestinians to keep them in their place, you don’t care because you want to “maintain “ the balance.[/color]

Most people in Europe see Amirika as an extremely warlike country whose sole motivation is to protect the petrol dollar and the associated highly profitable arms industry.

I know a lot of Europeans and have not heard that but without our “warlike country”, you could be wiped out in a couple of weeks.

And I haven't even mentioned the disruptive effect of refugees entering Europe en masse as a result of the conflicts you are causing all over the world.

They’re entering because, like the Biden Administration, you’re foolish enough to let them.

And we see your NGOs as a serious threat to our democracy or what is left of it. And we see the culture of your mega-large companies bringing very undesirable changes to important social structures in our country.

I’m not aware of the specifics but I’d be surprised if anyone cared that much about what’s going on in The Netherlands.

Your ambassador here, intervenes when we introduce laws that go against American interests. For example, we are not allowed to downsize our airport, which causes enormous inconvenience throughout the country, and we have recently been obliged to purchase liquid gas from you, with all the billions in costs for the associated infrastructure.
We don't even experience that much pressure from China.

Again, man up and say no.

However, you think that we still embrace you as our savior.

That’s because no one else would come to your aid.

Not that we weren't grateful to you for that. To this day, the burial sites of fallen American soldiers are kept in tip-top condition, with flowers and all.
We are also very realistic in that regard.

And we appreciate that.

But what has come from America in recent decades and also what you are doing on the world stage is not appreciated here in Europe. And then I express myself mildly.

I can defend everything we’ve done, but would you rather China or Russia be the unopposed?

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zevenenergie

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Re: Why
Reply #26 - 12/30/23 at 10:32:04

I can defend everything we’ve done, but would you rather China or Russia be the unopposed?

I think it's a good question.

And if you look at the current situation, I think that Amirika is on a ram course that no longer has anything to do with reality.
The Middle East had relative peace and that would have remained the case if you had called Israel back in time. But you don't want that peace there because your power is a war power.

You can say whatever you want about China, but it wants peaceful relations with business partners, which is deeply ingrained in their culture.

I think that if you had docked your aircraft carriers off the coast of Taiwan with the message that you are moving the entire Chinese tenogogy sector to America and that China can then get its province back, you would have commanded respect everywhere in the world, because it is understandable politics.

You are now sending out the message with Ukraine, Israel and soon also with Taiwan; we are prepared to kill millions of people and destroy the entire country. (What's left of Ukraine and Gaza)?

That doesn't make you popular with your allies either.
Europeans are working hard to get rid of corrupt governments. That will also have consequences for America.
By bringing and promoting Democracy you will no longer sell it. With Gaza all eyes have been opened.

The Monster wakes up in Taiwan. What will be left of the opposition?

If the West does not want the situation in the world to escalate, we will have to end the war in Ukraine. We will now have to save the Palestinians. And provide very good aftercare.

If you pump in more billions, I won't have to explain what the future will look like.

We don't realize that everything and everyone is connected. And if we continue like this, we will destroy the human experiment once and for all. And while it is possible to live together in abundance.

Did you know that we brought the Western banking system to China?
The cancerous tumor that is growing there, has been growing in our area for much longer.

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28416 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Why Reply #27 - 12/30/23 at 11:27:15 You seem to forget... It was Russia that attacked Ukraine and it was Hamas that attacked Israel. I side with the innocent
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zevenenergie

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Re: Why
Reply #28 - 12/30/23 at 13:32:13

Why do I have to think of Alec Baldwin now.
Apparently innocence is a difficult concept.

I always thought that we in the Netherlands received pure information. That our view on all matter was correct. Until I got a little older and saw that our national news channel (the NOS) was nothing more than a state channel. And that the media also dictated to us how we should think.
We are dealing with pure conditioning here.

So you never take a position yourself, but always from your conditioned mind. Ait that stupid?

I cannot understand.
People who were expelled from their land about 70 years ago and were systematically oppressed, evicted and abused.
And now, men, women and children who have nowhere to go.

I see anyone who supports that violence as seriously confused.

We are talking about genocide here.

And the Jews react from their trauma, I know that
but as an outside world you then have to intervene.

What America is doing is supporting this genocide.
And that's why I say Amirika is a warlike country, worse than any country in the world.Why worse? Because America claims to be morally superior.

Putin is a saint compared to American presidents of the past 70 years. And Putin has warned. But America wouldn't listen. So who started the war?
You voted for Biden. I said it again, and again, don't do it. Vote for Trump. That could have saved millions of lives, but no, you knew better...
And now Ukraine is in ruins, Gaza is in ruins. Everyone around the world is worse off. Soon the war in Taiwan will probably show the same picture.
Three times the charm, we say in Holland. Now you're not going to get away unscathed.

I'm going to enjoy it this time. Even if it has consequences for us too.

Edit:

And it will be fun, because you won't get far with a president who you have to carbon date to see how old he is.

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Re: Why
Reply #29 - 12/31/23 at 00:34:21

Most people in Europe see Amirika as an extremely warlike country whose sole motivation is to protect the petrol dollar and the associated highly profitable arms industry.

And I haven't even mentioned the disruptive effect of refugees entering Europe en masse as a result of the conflicts you are causing all over the world.

Having spent multiple weeks in locations where people are unaware I am American I can definitely confirm this to be accurate in the small sample size I have. The US is "all about the oil" and our past decades of "destabilization" actions on foreign governments causing refugee camps/regions. our international policy is most definitely not seen as meant to help anyone but the US.

We do have policies that seem good from a US citizen perspective, that seem like unwarranted aggression to humans more directly impacted.

As for Israel / Palestine, this whole idea that the US should support Palestine at this point is ridiculous. Decades of peace-talks was our support. Refusing to compromise at any useful degree for decades, then launching an attack is no way to garner US support.

If I let my squabbling neighbors use my Living-room to talk out property claims for 60 years, feeding them both lunch every week with my money, then one neighbor kills the children of another, I am not going to go support the murdering neighbor because my great great grandfather helped build a house on the wrong property. Should I support the child murderer because he was oppressed and my grandfather helped lay the groundwork for that oppression?

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