SuzukiSavage.com - Piece of dowel rod in cylinder

Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28699 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder Reply #60 - 11/21/23 at 05:48:32 Another thought... try a dental tool. Pointy pokey bits on each end. Stab it!
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zevenenergie Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1391 The Netherlands Den Haag	Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder Reply #61 - 11/21/23 at 06:45:39 If you could light the wood, and you had a bottle of oxygen at your disposal, you would effortlessly burn the wood to ashes in a few minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7gBx3KwmQ8
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ThumperPaul

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #62 - 11/21/23 at 09:30:27

Serowbot - Good idea that I tried and failed. I tried my wife's dental tool and I tried several different picks. That's how I managed to chip off a few pieces, but it's also how I ended up knocking it all the way in the cylinder when is was only snagged in the spark plug hole.

Zevenenergie - FIRE!! Good thing I don't have an oxygen tank laying around! I also snapped into reality that lighter fluid and fire is a really bad idea - the fluid would seep past the piston rings into the crankcase with oil and kaboom (or at least a big nasty oil fire as sometimes seen in the Gulf of Mexico).

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zevenenergie

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #63 - 11/21/23 at 12:33:53

I have been working in metal since I was 16, so I often work with acetylene and oxygen for welding. And know what oxygen can do. You only have to walk into a metal workshop and explain it and they immediately understand what the intention is.

I often use oxygen to remove thick layers of paint from metal and even thick layers of rust fly off if you use a flame with a surplus of oxygen.

So don't think that I found this video and came up with this tip. I deliberately looked it up to show you how oxygen works.

It,s a realy good tip. If you can find someone whit a welding set.

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DragBikeMike

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #64 - 11/21/23 at 19:06:54

I implore you, and everyone else on this forum, DO NOT EVER ATTEMPT TO INJECT PURE OXYGEN INTO YOUR ENGINE.

Using an Oxy Acetylene torch with a cutting tip to burn off paint & rust is a lot different from injecting oxygen into an enclosed vessel with combustible stuff like oil, residual fuel, etc.

An oxygen fire is almost impossible to extinguish. Do some searches on Google. This is a quote from Martek Marine Article Understanding the Dangers of Oxygen.

"Oxygen-fueled fires are ferocious and more difficult to put out, as they burn hotter than other chemical fires. Almost any material will burn vigorously in oxygen including rubber, silicone and even metals. Oxygen is so volatile that even in small quantities it poses a risk to health and becomes potentially hazardous. Even an increase of 3% of oxygen in ambient air can pose a significant threat of fire or explosion."

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DragBikeMike

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #65 - 11/21/23 at 19:23:19

To elaborate, another quote from Health and Safety Executive article, Take Care with Oxygen.

"Never use oxygen in equipment not designed for it. Many serious accidents have been caused by using oxygen instead of other gasses such as compressed air or nitrogen. Oxygen can react explosively with oils and greases. People have been injured or even killed when pumps, engines, tyres and pressure equipment have been blown apart by the explosion. Oxygen can also cause other materials to ignite spontaneously. The resulting fire can cause damage to equipment and injury to people."

Please, don't try to inject oxygen into your cylinder.

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zevenenergie

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #66 - 11/22/23 at 00:16:21

I see that as the same warning that you should never leave the key of your three-jaw chuck in the lathe, with life-threatening consequences.

Reality: It just falls to the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWN3YLcXt0I

The only practical danger with oxygen is that you have to be careful not to let it get into your clothes. And that you should not lubricate your oxygen reduction valve and meters with oil.

The tip is not to hang a cutting torch in your engine.

The tip is to light the wood and let some oxygen flow into your combustion chamber. That space can withstand some heat.
It won,t be intense. Just an eazy burn. Use your whits.

It might not be a good idea if you have no experience with acetylene welding equipment. But I wouldn't turn my back on it.

Unless you are willing to open the engine.
I think it is the only sensible tip in this topic that actually leads to result.

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« Last Edit: 11/22/23 at 02:47:14 by zevenenergie »

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #67 - 11/22/23 at 03:52:53

I don't support burning it out.....or trying to dissolve the wood with any chemical - both of those methods are likely to be harmful to the cast iron cylinder bore and/or piston.

How about taking off the exhaust header, and then rotating the engine until the exhaust valves are open a fair amount....but the piston is still up near the top as far as possible to reduce the volume. Then take the shop vac hose and put it on the "blow" side - and place the hose on the exhaust port. The blowing air will go into the cylinder and out the spark plug hole, and you can take your pipe cleaner and wiggle it around and try to get the wood dowel to get picked up by the air flow and blown against the spark plug hole. "IF" it does get blown up against the hole - leave the shop vac on and try to grab the dowel with the forceps and maneuver it out. I realize the hole is small diameter and the threads are long.......but maybe you will get lucky!

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #68 - 11/22/23 at 05:18:24

The oxygen idea is a moot point for me. I don’t have that stuff and I’m not asking anyone that does to do such a thing. Fire and any accelerant is off the table.

I may try Mike’s idea of jacking open the valves and see if I can blow or suck it out thru a valve opening instead of the plug hole.

Assuming that fails, I will attempt to start the bike with the sucker in there and see if I get lucky. If not, I’ll be doing an unskilled top end rebuild. It’ll sound better to friends and people later when I say I installed new performance valves, cam, cam chain tensioner, plug cap, and piston. That sounds much better than I tore it down to extract a chunk of wood in the cylinder that some dumbass dropped down in there.

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ThumperPaul Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1743 Houston, Texas Gender:	Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder Reply #69 - 11/22/23 at 05:37:49 The headline might read something like…. “Small piece of wooden dowel rod takes on smashing metal piston, 4 valves, a cylinder head, sparking fire and air/fuel mixture and loses.” I only have to edit the last word if the result is the opposite. Darn dowel rod has to lose this epic battle!! Rock, paper, scissors!!
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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #70 - 11/22/23 at 08:01:48

Normally I would agree with replacing the camshaft anyway. But since you dropped the dowel in your combustion chamber, you've lost any sense of decision-making dignity. Wink

You simply go to a construction site and use their overhead crane to turn the bike upside down and continues to fiddle with a wire until the dowel is out.

You put it in a supit way you get it out a stupit way.

And that's the last thing I want to hear about it. Angry

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28699 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder Reply #71 - 11/22/23 at 09:58:57 Call "The Rock",.. ask him to come over and shake the bike upside down... if the Rock isn't available,... call Dave...
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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #72 - 11/22/23 at 11:39:35

It seemed to me that it might be beneficial to all of us to try a simple mockup. I put a piston into a cylinder, positioned it just shy of TDC, installed a head assembly, and tried several variations of jacked open valves. It took all of about 30 minutes. Should require less effort on your bike since it's all assembled and doesn't require scrounging up parts.

Here you see the intake valves jacked all the way open. It took 13 turns on the adjuster screws. I believe the pitch on those screws is 0.75mm so 13 turns would have opened the valves about .380". Should be enough. I suspect you could probably go to 14 turns safely, but 13 should easily be enough.

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DragBikeMike Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 4408 Honolulu	Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder Reply #73 - 11/22/23 at 11:41:13 Same drill on the exhaust valves. It also took 13 turns from zero clearance to flush with top of rocker arm.
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DragBikeMike Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 4408 Honolulu	Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder Reply #74 - 11/22/23 at 11:42:34 Here is the view through the exhaust port. You can see into the combustion chamber and cylinder pretty darned good. I'm shining a light through the intake port. It illuminates the combustion chamber just right.
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