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Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking (Read 99 times)
DeafFakir
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Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking
11/03/23 at 20:09:38
 
Hi everyone! This will be my first post here! Sorry its a diagnostic question. I am also sorry in advance for only now starting to take serious care of my bike after one year of riding. I want to begin the learning process and it starts with diagnosing the following issue:
My 2003 savage has 4000 miles on it. I have seen it through one full year now, changed the rear tire (clumsily) by myself, changed the air filter and routinely used carb cleaner in the gas. That is about all of the maintenance I have personally done.
about a month and a half ago, my bike started to have trouble accelerating from first and second gears after letting out the clutch. It makes a rhythmic clunking sound, doesn't get up to speed very quickly and the bike jerks forward as the rhythm increases and the engine gets up to speed. I assumed it was because I had a passenger so the bike was struggling under the weight, but it was happening with just me on it later. I can stop it from doing this by very very slowly increasing rpms while letting out the clutch but it is far too slow to be practical.


As for the possible causes I can give, the most egregious is that I ran this bike on very low oil for an extended period. Oil levels are back to where they should be. I also found the fuel line had a very large and almost invisible crack running down its length. I have no idea when that appeared but I changed it and the problem persists. I also changed the spark plug, used carb cleaner in the gas and changed the air filter, hoping for a simple fix like a bad fuel to air ratio or bad spark.

Thank you genuinely for any advice or knowledge you can share about this issue- I hope I can start to ride more seriously and safely after this, so long as I didn't screw up my engine...
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DeafFakir
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Re: Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking
Reply #1 - 11/03/23 at 20:10:07
 
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Dave
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Re: Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking
Reply #2 - 11/04/23 at 04:01:17
 
I really can't tell anything from the video.  It doesn't appear the low oil created a terminal failure......it may have created some premature wear on the cam/rockers/piston/cylinder.  The only way to know for sure is to ride it and put some miles on it.

You have not stated how often you ride it....and if the bike has sat for any length of time with fuel in it - or if you still have the original vacuum operated fuel petcock.

I suspect you are having fuel flow or dirty carb issues.

The diaphragm in the original petcock is prone to failure and they either leak or get stiff and stop working.....symptoms of failure can vary widely.  I would begin by replacing the stock petcock with one from the Yamaha Raptor (get the official Yamaha one and not a Chinese copy).  Look for the white box and part number to be sure you are getting a Yamaha part
LkAAOSwmfhX4r09&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0BIvtCTWWW4DmaJaoQTJSLW2iLsIFja84udjP3MOp%2F4lbvZ1Yj3K5rm47XEHzP35NZ%2BH8rSHS5H3CqlWkhpssMNYC0ycROkBN6u6Ww5B4O62gG%2F%2FXfXGiGEvf4sNYA3YhtfbTFFnm%2FzHiFyVePUcEbOjxWaSl6vPVqQoDZ3wwEc%2B2et4cSdrnVU2RNIQ5uyU5JqtqfBrSQfM21jagLxo81QQ9x5aBy2ONvtUH896doWePgjKezG7y8Z1dPL9A7Wg2luqAqmaBQg9epjAMIgTd9o%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4Ckpp_zYg" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.com/itm/273472354220?fits=Model%3ARaptor+660R%7CMake%3AYamaha&hash=item3fac38f7ac:gCheesyLkAAOSwmfhX4r09&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0BIvtCTWWW4DmaJaoQTJSLW2iLsIFja84udjP3MOp%2F4lbvZ1Yj3K5rm47XEHzP35NZ%2BH8rSHS5H3CqlWkhpssMNYC0ycROkBN6u6Ww5B4O62gG%2F%2FXfXGiGEvf4sNYA3YhtfbTFFnm%2FzHiFyVePUcEbOjxWaSl6vPVqQoDZ3wwEc%2B2et4cSdrnVU2RNIQ5uyU5JqtqfBrSQfM21jagLxo81QQ9x5aBy2ONvtUH896doWePgjKezG7y8Z1dPL9A7Wg2luqAqmaBQg9epjAMIgTd9o%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4Ckpp_zYg

I would also suggest a carb cleaning, rejet of the carb using a #50 pilot jet and a #150 man jet, and to remove the white spacer on the carb needle and either sand/file it down to 1/2 thickness or replace it with 3 machine screw washers.  I believe the washers are #4 machine screw size and they need to be steel - as the brass ones are made with too large of an OD and won't fit inside the slide recess hole.  You will need to adjust the fuel/air mixture screw for best idle..start with 1.5 turns out from lightly seated and adjust as necessary for smooth idle.  You will need to drop the idle rpm down to adjust the screw - then when you get a smooth idle turn the rpm back up to 1,100-1,200.
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Re: Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking
Reply #3 - 11/04/23 at 05:28:27
 
I did hear the clunking sound. I wouldn't drive it until I found the problem.
I think It's not because of the bad fuel to air ratio or bad spark.

I don't know as much about the savage like others on the forum, so please forgive me, but I think it is the transmission.
Check that your belt does not jump because it is too loose and that it is completely intact. I hope for your sake it's not something in your engine.

It is of course not desirable to drive with little oil. If you if you have topped up the oil and not replaced the old, you can drain the oil and see if there are any metal particles in it. That would give a indication of what is going on.
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking
Reply #4 - 11/04/23 at 06:54:56
 
...and check that the front drive pulley hasn't eaten the drive splines.
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Dave
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Re: Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking
Reply #5 - 11/04/23 at 06:56:19
 
I don't hear as well as I used to.......I listened on speakers and headphones and might have heard a bit of the clunk.

I would take the pulley cover off the left side of the engine and look at the front pulley.  If you see any dusty/rusty looking debris coming from the pulley nut area - that is an indication the nut is loose and the transmission shaft could be damaged as a result.

Check the nut to see if it is tight, and also inspect the drive belt.

The photo below shows a pulley on the left that was run with the nut loose....the pulley on the right is normal.
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Re: Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking
Reply #6 - 11/05/23 at 06:51:55
 
You've heard from some real experts on this forum, but I'm curious what carb cleaner you're running in your fuel. It's not something routinely needed, and I've heard some of them can actually build up a varnish or something. Stab-bil isn't really a cleaner, but more of a fuel stabilizer. Seafoam has performed well for me in the past, but I only used it occasionally.
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Re: Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking
Reply #7 - 11/05/23 at 16:45:04
 
I'm not sure why you think you need to put carb cleaner in your gas but you should stop as it serves no purpose.  Maybe you have a good reason, but I can't think of any.

Dave advised you to clean and reject the carb.  DO NOT do this until you have solved the noise issue.  Your bike sounds like it's running okay.  Don't fix what ain't broken, especially when something is broken.

The knocking or slapping sound in the video you posted sounds like it's something in the final drive and possibly not even from your engine.

Does the sound only happen when the bike is rolling?  Does its frequency change with ground speed or engine speed?   Does it go away if you pull the clutch in and coast?

It could be some sort of interference or belt issue as suggested aboe. Since you "clumsily" replaced your rear tire, I would start there.   I would lift the bike and give everything a good once over.   Make sure the wheel is tight and properly aligned.   Check the belt tension and confirm that nothing is hitting the belt guard.  Make sure the rear brake is working as it should.  Make sure you don't have any broken spokes. You want to rule out any possible interference.  

A loose wheel and skipping belt could cause all of these issues, so rule those things out before moving on to the engine.  

If you rule out interference, you can start looking for issues with the clutch.  Shocked

Good luck!
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Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking
Reply #8 - 11/06/23 at 05:59:14
 
Ohio has a good point.  I missed the part about changing rear tire.
Recheck your work.

It sounds drive related to me.
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Re: Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking
Reply #9 - 11/07/23 at 01:51:48
 
Difficult to diagnose by listening to your audio.  It's not rhythmic.  Almost sounds like an intake backfire.  What happens when you hit the throttle hard?  If your pulley splines are the source of the noise, it should sound like a machine gun if you give it hard throttle.  

Try running it with your air cleaner cover removed and see if the sound changes, or if you can tell if it's an intake backfire.

Intake backfire is generally caused by an intake valve sticking open or leaking badly.
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DeafFakir
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Re: Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking
Reply #10 - 11/09/23 at 18:53:00
 
Alright everyone, I looked over all of your replies and advice which was invaluable! Thank you so much for taking the time to help me. Those of you who had your bets on the belt being the problem are the winners. As some suggested, I needed to recheck my work on the rear tire change. The problem was that I didn't tighten the belt enough and it was hitting part of the metal frame just behind the front pulley. Every time I engaged the engine and sped up, the belt likely had too much leeway to move and was slapping the metal and causing the jolting and clanging noise. Incredibly simple fix and I got to learn how to inspect the front pulley, test the belt tension, use the tension bolts to tighten the belt, remove the gas tank, change spark and a whole host of other important maintenance skills all in service of figuring out this problem. Again, thank you all for putting in the time and effort to help me.

To all those who happen to have the same problem, allow me to fully detail the symptoms of this particular issue:
I had recently changed the rear tire of my bike and unknowingly made a mistake by not fully retightening the tension bolts (the bolts coming off of the flat, two planed clasps that are on either side of the rear axle)
after a month or two of riding, the bike began clunking predictably immediately after letting out the clutch and engaging the engine. This caused a jolting, slow acceleration into first and second gears. at higher speeds the jolts aren't noticeable.

I learned what the problem was when I jacked up the bike and felt the belt drive skim against metal when I pulled it.

The solution is to tighten the tension bolts on both sides of the axle. This forum has guidance on this very simple process if you need it.

Hopefully this thread can help some other inexperienced riders and mechanics!
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Re: Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking
Reply #11 - 11/10/23 at 05:46:20
 
Great that you figured it out!
BTW, while you are at it, grab the rear pulley at 3 and 9 o’clock and try to rock it back and forth. If there is a noticeable amount of play, you have the dreaded ‘rear pulley bearing death’. Easy to fix with the Drag Bike Mike double Wide bearing conversion.
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Re: Help with diagnosing rhythmic clunking
Reply #12 - 11/10/23 at 17:07:41
 
Great news.  Your OP read like a crime scene and they say "The criminal always returns to the scene of the crime."  We just nudged you in the right direction.
Smiley
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