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Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade (Read 620 times)
Armen
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #90 - 09/25/23 at 12:23:09
 
Awesome work DBM!
Thanks for sharing!
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #91 - 11/13/23 at 20:03:39
 
So, I recently rolled over 60K miles.  It was time to look at a few things.  While I was racking up the mileage, I managed to do a test to see if the oil filter differential pressure (DP) approached the point where the filter bypass would lift (25 psid).  

To measure the filter DP, all I needed was a simple test rig that allowed me to get a gage on the pump discharge pressure.  This contraption was easy to make and worked well.  Not something I want to go riding around with, but for a short test it served the purpose.
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #92 - 11/13/23 at 20:07:40
 
With the oil up to temperature and the engine running at 4K, pump discharge pressure was about 20 psi and system pressure was about 11 psi.  So, we're lookin at about 9 psid.  Well below 25 so I think it's good just where it's at.
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #93 - 11/13/23 at 20:18:56
 
All the important stuff was inspected.  It's all good.  

-No chips or chunks on the magnetic drain plug

-No pits in the gear teeth

-Compression 200 psi

-Clutch bushing & sleeve ace

-Clutch action ace

-Pump drive gears ace

-Valve lash unchanged (.004 - .005)

-Cam lobes unchanged, still some superficial pitting

So, at the 14K mark it's holdin its own.  So far, I am very satisfied with this system.  It seems to have resolved my gear pitting and bearing spalling issues.  It also seems to have helped the clutch engagement issue.  While I believe the wave-washer deserves the lion's share of the credit for clutch engagement, the improved oil system has to be at least partially responsible for the absence of bronze deposits on the sleeve.

I will keep you posted on my progress.

Best regards,

Mike  
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #94 - 12/08/23 at 04:20:07
 
Mike:

That is an impressive amount of work and the results are hopefully going to keep you engine healthy while you push the limits of power.

For most of us the HP and wear is not as severe as it has been while you explore the limits of the Savage.

Doing the modifications to the oil pump drive gears might be within my ability with my lathe - my previous experience cutting hardened steel was a bit ugly.  Oil pump drive gears for the Savage are cheap on eBay....I can get a set and play with them to see how successful I am with that part of the modification.

However - I am not likely to do anything to split the center cases and install the oil feed to the gear set, or modify the seal at the center of the engine case.  I ride my modified engine at a fun pace - but I seldom use all the power that is available.  My rides generally keep the engine between 3,000-4,000rpm, half throttle or less - the big benefit to me from the modified engine is the amount of torque that is available as I exit the corner and roll on the throttle a bit.....I rarely do any full throttle run through the gears to 80mph.

What would us mortals do to the oil passages to prevent over pressurization if we did the overdrive oil pump gears?  Is there a way we could install a pressure relief valve that would open when the amount of oil flow from the overdriven pump is excessive?
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #95 - 12/08/23 at 16:16:55
 
Dave, regardless of the way you ride your bike, you would certainly benefit from a bit more oil flow and the resulting increase in pressure.  If you installed an oil pressure gage on your head cover,  you would routinely see zero pressure at idle, extremely low pressure when stuck in congested traffic, and a paltry 6 to 8 psi when cruising at 4K.

Managing the extra oil can be done in several ways.

-Install the oil cooler and gear lube circuit like I did.

-Install the special fitting with hose barb and control jet.  Route the bleed oil directly back to the filler cap, or route the bleed oil through a cooler back to the filler cap.  I personally don’t think the cooler is necessary, but someone in Phoenix or Las Vegas might like it.

-Dump the excess back into the primary drive via the existing hole in the filter cavity.  This is the easiest and least invasive way, and I have already figured out a jet size that should be very close to any riders’ situation.
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #96 - 12/08/23 at 16:18:38
 
Let’s look at the quick & dirty solution.  As I mentioned in reply 64 thru 66, there is a drilled & tapped hole in the clutch cover that is used to attach the oil seal retainer for the crankshaft oil feed.  That hole is a M5 x 0.8 thread, and it goes all the way through the cover into the oil filter cavity.  I drilled that hole out, made a special bolt with provision for a jet, and installed the special bolt so that I could install the jet by simply removing the oil filter cover.  That way, I could fiddle with the jet or simply plug the hole with a set screw.  Turns out, the jet wasn’t needed for my system, so I am running with the hole plugged with a setscrew.  That means that the #120 main jet (1.2mm) I am running in the 4th circuit to the cooler and gear spray is just about right to maintain reasonable oil pressure (about 4 to 5 psi at idle, about 10 to 11 psi at cruise).  I’m very happy with that.

Since we now know that a 1.2mm bleed (#120 main jet) will get the system pressure just about right when the high-speed gears are used, you could simply install a 1.2mm bleed in the oil seal retainer hole.  The Mikuni main jets are M5 x 1.75, the tapped hole is M5 x 1.8.  No big deal, the jet screws right in.  It’s snug, sort of like a fiber self-locking nut, but totally OK.  That 1.2mm bleed jet will spray the excess oil right back into the primary drive.  Might help the drive gears a bit, but IMO could be put to better use.  This bleed satisfies your concern regarding over pressurization.
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #97 - 12/08/23 at 16:19:48
 
I guess you could install the high-speed gears without installing an oil pressure gage, but IMO you really need the gage to verify that things are working correctly.

I install the pressure tap in the head cover since it’s the most remote location.  There is a drilled passage that runs across the top of the head cover to feed oil into the cam bearings.  It’s perfect for the gage connection.   You want to do this with the head cover removed.  The wall is thin, so I drill the hole a bit oversize (like 23/64 or 3/8) so that the tap doesn’t split the casting when I cut the threads.  I use JB weld to seal the threads.  It doesn’t leak and it ain’t commin out either.   It goes without sayin that ya gotta clean all this up before you reinstall the head cover.
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #98 - 12/08/23 at 16:20:30
 
Once I have drilled and tapped the passage for 1/8 NPT, I install a 1/8NPT x 1/8 tube 90° fitting.  It has plenty of clearance with the fuel tank.  The gage tubing is Nylon rated at 625 psi.  It’s Parker Parflex NR-2-026, 1/8 OD x .026 wall, 625WP, 200F, 6605729822.  It’s available from Nitrous Oxide Systems.  You can get it from Pingle, Jeggs, Summit Racing, etc.  Been runnin this same tubing for about 5 years, never had a problem.
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #99 - 12/08/23 at 16:24:52
 
It’s very comforting to have this oil pressure gage.  For the stock oil system, you need a 0-15 psi gage.  For the high-speed gear set you need a 0-30 psi gage.  If you decide to measure pressure right off the pump, you need a 0-60 psi gage.  Marshall 1.5” liquid filled gages work great.

This picture shows the 0-60 gage, but the range was too wide for my system.  I’m runnin the 0-30 with the high-speed gears and it’s just right.  The Marshall part number is CF00030.
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #100 - 12/08/23 at 16:25:36
 
I feel that this high-speed gear set is the best mod I have done to the Savage.  It doesn’t make it run faster or smoother.  It doesn’t sound better.  It doesn’t start easier.  If I didn’t have the gage, I wouldn’t know the high-speed gears are there.  It gives me a lot of satisfaction knowing that the engine is getting plenty of lubrication.  Now, when I’m stuck in gridlock I don’t have to pull off and let the thing cool off, or grit my teeth and hope I don’t get stuck.  No more ZERO pressure situations.  The extra volume of oil flow gives me the latitude to direct additional oil to components that need it, like top gear.
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #101 - 12/08/23 at 16:27:09
 
Regarding the gear machining, there is only one critical step.  That would be cutting the fit on the larger gear, the one that was originally installed on the oil pump.  It has a small hole in the center and spokes that connect the center hub to the tire.  That fit will be your reference and must be machined before the spokes are severed.  You need to use carbide tool bits and adequate cutting oil.  It’s a very small cut, just enough to establish a true circular fit that is concentric to the gear tooth pitch diameter.

I achieve that by using a spud.  I machine an aluminum spud using my three-jaw chuck.  That spud has a machined diameter just about .0005” smaller than the center hole in the gear.  I also drill and tap the center of the spud for a pinch bolt.  Once I have machined the OD of the spud and drill & tap the hole, I do not take the spud out of the chuck.  That way, the fit on the spud will be running exactly true.  Then I place the gear onto the spud and clamp it to the spud with the pinch bolt and washers.  Since the spud runs true the gear will run true.

With the gear running true, I take very light cuts with a small carbide boring bit (must be a boring bit).  Remove just enough material to clean out the radius and establish a circular fit for the new aluminum hub.  Make sure to accurately measure the diameter of your new machined-fit before you cut through any spokes.

When you cut through the spokes to remove the center hub of the gear, it will go out-of-round.  Not a problem.  The new hub you make will have an OD the same size as the fit bore.  When you install the new hub in the gear tire it will make the gear round again.

I believe FinnHammer made a special holding clamp so he could keep the gear round for machining operations etc.  I’m too lazy to do that, I just use the new hub to make the gear round again.  When I cut the spokes, I left about .015” clearance with the shoulder on the new hub.  I just use the spokes to provide a place to secure the gear to the hub, they don’t accurately locate anything.

This is a picture of the gear mounted in a four-jaw chuck.  The dial indicator is reading on the new fit for the new aluminum hub.  I was trying to see if I would be able to clean up a bore in the spokes once I severed the spokes.  The aluminum spud is still in the gear.  Sorry, I guess I never took a pic of the gear and spud mounted in the three-jaw.  Hope you get the idea.  The spud gets mounted in the three-jaw and machined to suit the center bore in the gear.  Then, without removing the spud from the chuck, the gear gets clamped to the spud.  Now the gear is running true.  Then the fit is cut.  Then the spokes are severed.  Once severed, you don’t need to machine a bore in the spokes.  You can simply grind them with a die grinder to provide adequate clearance with the new hub.
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #102 - 12/08/23 at 16:28:12
 
The new aluminum hub is made to the same dimensions as the original hole in the smaller gear that ran on the clutch basket.  You make the thickness and fit to suit the original axial position and special fit you cut in the gear.  You can see from this picture that there is a bit of clearance between the aluminum hub and the spokes.  The spoke in line with the keyway is hand ground to suit the drive pin.  You want it to capture the pin.  You only use the remainder of the spokes to provide a place to install the button head screws.
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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #103 - 12/09/23 at 03:26:23
 
Thanks Mike......that is all very straightforward and even at 5AM I can understand it!

I would likely just use the jet screwed into the seal retainer.....seems too easy!

Smiley
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« Last Edit: 12/09/23 at 07:23:06 by Dave »  

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Re: Oil System Evaluation & Upgrade
Reply #104 - 12/09/23 at 18:57:03
 
Well I learned how to machine hardened steel today.....felt a bit like trying to cut porcelain!

Lot of shallow cuts and I sharpened the carbide bit 4 times!

Making the aluminum center is going to be refreshing after this event!
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