SuzukiSavage.com - Worn drive shaft.

zevenenergie

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1389
The Netherlands Den Haag

Worn drive shaft.
09/16/23 at 10:21:48

Hi guys,

Today I bought a engine with a worn drive shaft.( It had 16,000 miles on the clock)

I bought it for the parts, but otherwise it appears to be in optimal condition.
So I'm thinking of replacing the axle and keeping the engine as a spare.

My question is:
Is it possible to remove the axle without splitting the engine or does it have to be taken apart completely?

Back to top

Do what you know is right. (you can always use fear as a counselor later)

IP Logged

Fast 650 Senior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 405 Valrico, FL Gender:	Re: Worn drive shaft. Reply #1 - 09/16/23 at 12:03:00 If you replace that shaft I hope you have excellent mechanical skills, a well stocked tool box, a good service manual, and lots of patience. To replace that shaft (transmission main shaft) requires splitting the cases. It is a major chore and not fun at all.
Back to top	IP Logged

Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28660 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Worn drive shaft. Reply #2 - 09/16/23 at 12:51:53 That's a parts motor
Back to top	Ludicrous Speed !... ... ... IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28886 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Worn drive shaft. Reply #3 - 09/16/23 at 13:01:59 parts engine would be my 1st inclination otherwise you'll need to weld the pulley to that shaft. and I'd probably pin it too.
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

Fast 650 Senior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 405 Valrico, FL Gender:	Re: Worn drive shaft. Reply #4 - 09/16/23 at 22:34:32 The cases split vertically on the LS. Everything has to come apart to get to the transmission. And if you tap the shaft with a hammer to separate the cases the transmission will fall out in a jumble of gears and shift forks. Been there, done that. It is not a fun job and you need a helper to hold everything in place to reassemble.
Back to top	IP Logged

DragBikeMike

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4401
Honolulu

Re: Worn drive shaft.
Reply #5 - 09/16/23 at 23:01:18

IMO, it's not very hard to do. Since you purchased the engine as a "Parts Engine", you don't need to rush. I assume you have an operational motorcycle so you could take your time and learn all the ins & outs of the Savage powerplant.

You need a few special tools and the service manual. I would spend the extra bucks for a factory service manual. The flywheel puller runs about $60 bucks. Make your own flywheel holder. There's a couple of sockets you will probably need. Tools required to split the case are pretty easy to fabricate.

If you are serious about your Savage, then it is worth every bit of your time & effort to learn how to completely disassemble and assemble your engine. Let's face it, you bought it for parts, if you need any of the parts inside the engine you will have to disassemble it. Might as well learn some stuff in the bargain. Otherwise, it's just worthless junk taking up space in your garage.

If you are willing to take your time, I am willing to go back & forth with you step by step. But you must be patient and wait for the replies before you go to the next step. What is your skill level? How are you fixed for tools and a decent place to work on it?

Thanks for the pics of the output shaft. It's unique.

Back to top

Knowledge is power.

IP Logged

zevenenergie

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1389
The Netherlands Den Haag

Re: Worn drive shaft.
Reply #6 - 09/17/23 at 00:46:42

Hi Guys,
That is valuable information.
Smiley

Luckily I'm not in a hurry and my motorcycle has a very good engine.
It's just cosmetically not nice (oxide)

This is my bike:

I was planning to change the side covers.
But I think it's such a shame to lose that beautiful engine.

My skill level is reasonable, I am an experienced metal worker and am experienced in tuning smal 2-stroke engines.
Splitting this block is a challenge for me because I have never worked on 4-stroke engines and gears are always difficult to put back together. and every engine has its difficulties, but I would dare to do it.
It's a generous offer Dave, to guide me.It would be nice if I do it, that I can ask some questions.

I have a small but reasonably provided metal workshop with a lathe and mill ect. and quite a few tools. I can make special tools myself.

The case is that I'm also a bit short on time and that I can sometimes be called away from home for 2 months for work.

And the fact that it is not fun work to split the engine also plays a role, like Fast 650 says.

I have to consider some things, because if I split the block I will get to know it well and I'm looking forward to that. And I could also do some modifications, such as flow the head and increase the compression and perhaps a stage one camshaft. What I would love to know from you Dave is what kind of larger oil pump you have installed in your engine.

And Armen: The GT750 is a 2 stoke, I think has a horizontal split engine that makes things way more eazy.

Serowbot; Could end up that way.

Anyway

I'm going to see if I can secure the pulley to the shaft. Welding and possibly pinning is something I can try, and if it doesn't work, nothing is lost.
With a carbide drill I could also drill 3 holes lengthwise on the dividing line of the pulley and axel, then drive hardened pins into the axles. Then I have new keys and I don't weaken the axle too much. I'll see what's possible, And how that works out. Thanks for that idea Verslagen1. I hadn't thought of that myself.

If you guys like, I keep you posted if there is news to share.

Back to top

« Last Edit: 09/17/23 at 02:33:38 by zevenenergie »

Do what you know is right. (you can always use fear as a counselor later)

IP Logged

ohiomoto

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2772

Re: Worn drive shaft.
Reply #7 - 09/17/23 at 05:58:58

Fast 650 wrote on 09/16/23 at 22:34:32:

The cases split vertically on the LS. Everything has to come apart to get to the transmission. And if you tap the shaft with a hammer to separate the cases the transmission will fall out in a jumble of gears and shift forks. Been there, done that... Sad

----------------

The transmission shouldn't be falling out of the cases. The cases should be split "horizontally" with the engine on its side. Been there, done that dozens of times.

I agree with DBM. It shouldn't be too difficult for someone with some basic mechanical knowledge, access to tooling, and motivation. Just keep the engine on its sides and pay attention to the order of parts removed.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dave

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18099
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male

Re: Worn drive shaft.
Reply #8 - 09/17/23 at 17:06:23

I would not permanently attach the pulley to the shaft........I don't believe you can get a belt back on the pulley then without taking off the magneto cover.

Your "parts" engine is a project that needs a new output shaft for the transmission - you can take the engine apart as time allows and rebuild it to be an engine that you know is put back properly. Just follow the Shop Manual step by step and you should be OK. If your existing engine is healthy......you likely have years of time to get your spare engine ready.

Also - DragBikeMike is the one who offered to help you step by step. I can chime in when needed.....Mike is far more detailed in his observations than I am .

Back to top

Someday I will be old......But not today!

IP Logged

DragBikeMike

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4401
Honolulu

Re: Worn drive shaft.
Reply #9 - 09/18/23 at 01:57:41

Zevenenergie, you have a superb looking shop. If you can run those machine tools, working the Savage engine will be a walk in the park.

I agree with Dave, I wouldn't try to weld the pulley on to the output shaft, and I wouldn't try to pin it. The teardown and reassembly are easier than welding or pinning, and when you are all done you will have a quality result.

Let us know if you decide to tear it down.

Ooooops! Almost forgot to answer your question about the oil pump. I had the option to install a higher volume pump that I made using a SV650 gerotor, or install an overdrive gearset. I chose the overdrive gear set. It increases the speed of the oil pump by about 36%. It works great. Should have a post ready to go in a week or so.

Back to top

Knowledge is power.

IP Logged

badwolf Serious Thumper Offline Ridin' my Lil' Bagger - 153k miles so far Posts: 802 Palm Beach County, FL Gender:	Re: Worn drive shaft. Reply #10 - 09/18/23 at 12:53:22 You could make a adaptor to weld to the shaft to mount a sprocket to and convert to chain. That would elimate the belt removal problem. BUT, the heat from welding on the shaft would NOT be good for the oil seal. If that leaks and it is welded together,,, you are messed-up. But you would have a self-oiling chain.
Back to top	IP Logged

zevenenergie

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1389
The Netherlands Den Haag

Re: Worn drive shaft.
Reply #11 - 09/19/23 at 12:39:04

I have abandoned the idea of welding the pulley. The shaft is worn too thin to center the pulley and thus bending forces would be placed on the weld. And indeed the drive shaft would become too hot and burn the rubber seal. But I have to say that a self-lubricating system does put a smile on my face.

I'm sorry I mixed Dave and DragBikeMike but both of your names start with a D.

Thanks for the compliment about my workshop, I,m an amateur hobby machinist. But I have often worked for my employers on professional metalworking machines to replace pro,s when they were sick or went to work elsewhere. I'm not that fast but I get the job done. If I have one quality it is versatility in metalworking skills. From forging to mechanical benchwork. That has always been easy for me.

Over the past few days I have been watching head flow videos on You Tube and it has made me very excited. I can say that I can tune a 2-stroke quite professionally and I regularly do this for others. But from what I have seen so far, a 4-stroke is much more laborious and you need a lot more equipment, but it has less mystery than a 2-stroke.

So I decided to repair the engine with a different drive shaft and to tune the engine as far as my technical insight allows, using only the standard parts except the header and the silencer.
I look forward to the post about the bigger oil pump.
This will be a fun winter project.

But I'm not going to push myself, I'll take it as it comes, and take my time. As they say, eazy does it.

Back to top

Do what you know is right. (you can always use fear as a counselor later)

IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Worn drive shaft. Reply #12 - 09/19/23 at 15:20:53 I'm not that fast but I get the job done. Like the Savage.
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

DragBikeMike

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4401
Honolulu

Re: Worn drive shaft.
Reply #13 - 09/20/23 at 17:25:58

Zevenenergie,

Start by taking a whole bunch of photos of the engine. Top, bottom, rear, front, right-side, left-side. Get lots of close ups. Then set up an electronic file system to organize and store your photos. Take pictures before you disassemble anything, and then continue to take pictures each time you remove a part. They will come in handy when you find yourself trying to remember how something goes back together.

When you have a manual and you are ready to start disassembly, just let us know.

If you get into flow testing your head, it's easy and inexpensive to make a small flow bench. As I recall, I did a post on how to do that, but I can't find it. I'll keep looking. However, this old post on my Stage III head should be of interest.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1595224521/0

Back to top

Knowledge is power.

IP Logged

justin_o_guy2

Serious Thumper

Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.

Re: Worn drive shaft.
Reply #14 - 09/21/23 at 02:57:34

A piece of cardboard ,outline of whatever part drawn, slot in cardboard to hold the bolt.
Eliminate the puzzle of
Which bolt goes here?
Head cover has different lengths
Clutch cover has oil seals..
Keeping an eye toward going back together As it comes apart makes for a slower disassembly, but it takes so many questions out of assembly that it's worth it.

If you ever have to remove the oil pump drive gear, mark it before you move it.
It can be installed wrong side out,, and then the motor dies.
Can you eyeball it and agonize over it and figure it out?
Yeah, but don't.
Mark it,avoid the chance of getting it wrong and wasting time figuring it out.

Back to top

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

IP Logged