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Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering (Read 490 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #60 - 05/21/23 at 03:29:19
 
The UniFilter is also wide open.  No obstructions in here.

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #61 - 05/21/23 at 03:32:58
 
That super tight 90 degree PVC fitting is less than ideal.  Seems to me if you can fit that in there you ought to be able to fit a decent air filter directly onto the carb.
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #62 - 05/21/23 at 03:55:27
 
The Uni filter works very well at filtering, is easier to install and fit in tight spaces due to its flexibility.  And it’s cheaper by comparison.
I’ve used this filter for years on my Savage.
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #63 - 05/21/23 at 04:00:13
 
Thanks. I tried an unused uni filter off my dirt bike. But it's was only 52mm and needed an adapter. It bogged down horribly I'm sure because of the size.
 Mike, were you able to just clamp the K&N on without any shim ? I think it's quite a bit bigger than the stock carb intake?
I ordered the k&n but it's a 2 week wait for me. I bought a similarly sized one from an auto store today but it's slightly bigger and cone shaped.

I will just have to re do the wiring situation

Here is a picture of my exhaust.
There is a baffle in it, but it's just 2 round pieces of metal with holes drilled through them welded about 15cm apart. It's quite loud as it is but I could try removing the baffles.

The only issues I found on the ride today were at very high rpm. I'm not sure if it was in need of air or fuel. I could try a larger main jet if that might help?  The hesitation/stuttering is only slight and at what feels like the top 10%  of the rev range at WOT
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #64 - 05/22/23 at 02:37:20
 
Thanks very much for the picture of your exhaust.  I am gonna stick my neck out and say that your exhaust is not a hi-flow system.  Any sort of baffle inserted in that straight pipe most likely plugs things up.  But I've been wrong more than a time or two.

Can you remove the baffle and post several pictures so we can see all the features of the baffle (length, holes, flow path, etc.).

I suspect you have a stock header pipe with an extension attached.  The stock header only has a 1.3" interior cross-section, it's pretty restrictive.  The extension is most likely a 2" pipe to match the O.D. of the stock header.  So, there isn't much volume to store spent gas while the baffle allows the pressure to bleed off.

While you have the baffle removed, it's time for another quick & dirty test.

Red Alert!  Caution!  Danger!  Do not run the guts out of it with the air filter off and the baffle removed.  A few simple WOT runs in 2nd gear will suffice.  Do not go WOT in top gear and take it up to high speed.

With the air filter and baffle removed, run it up in first & second gear.  See if the high-rpm stutter is gone.  If it starts backfiring at high rpm, stop the test.  Don't run it for a long time in this configuration; you will hurt it.  Just run the test once or twice to determine if things improve.

Let us know how it goes.
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #65 - 05/22/23 at 02:50:11
 
I believe you mentioned that you have a 4-speed transmission.  That tells me you have one of the early LS650s.  Model years 1986-1995 came from the factory with a #155 main jet.  So, it seems like you have the stock main jet.  That assumes no one has drilled out the main jet (very bad practice, don't do it).

You have the engine modified with cam & high-compression piston, and it has more displacement to boot.  Wouldn't you agree that you probably don't need a smaller main jet.

All indications are indicative of a rich mixture.  A super restrictive air filter will do that, and so will a plugged-up exhaust system.  Marry those two things up and you have the perfect storm.  The restrictive systems don't rule out other problems completely, but you've gotta get those two things corrected to have a fighting chance.

Regarding the K&N and Uni filters, they both fit the stock carb.  You have to tighten the clamp quite a bit, but they fit good enough.
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #66 - 05/22/23 at 03:30:01
 
Thanks Mike.
The baffle is welded at 2 points. I'll have to drill it out. I have opened the exhaust port quite a bit at the head. The exhaust was purchased from bluecollar bobbers before I got the bike.

Would running the bike with the baffles removed full time cause issues ? Or do you just mean not to do it long in combination with the lack of the filter.
I have a large automotive cone filter fitted now.





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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #67 - 05/22/23 at 03:38:18
 
The air intake was using a velocity stack on yesterday's run so it wasn't restricted when I was riding for 30 mins. And all it presented was the hesitation at wot and the top of the gears. Is that still going to be a rich condition? I thought they'd likely go lean at the top end?

I really just want this thing to run right. Seeing so many with cheap pod filters running perfect is frustrating  Grin
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #68 - 05/22/23 at 10:18:24
 
I am pretty sure your air filter is blocking that port, buy the one im posting, it’ll fit without trimming the stock airbox
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #69 - 05/22/23 at 15:48:05
 
Port is clear. Running a velocity stack in the last effort and only had hesitation at the top of the rev range. I have a large filter to mount and it definitely not blocking the port.
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #70 - 05/22/23 at 17:05:09
 
"The baffle is welded at 2 points. I'll have to drill it out. "

Please don't do that.  It's just a quick & dirty test.  I reviewed the vids on Blue Collar Bobbers website.  The exhaust vid is second to last.  That system uses the stock header with an extension to give it the drag pipe look.  The extension is just glued on with silicone.  All you have to do is pull the extension off and you accomplish the same thing as removing the baffle.  It's not gonna run nice but it should be able to pull to max revs without stuttering and/or blubbering.  Have you viewed that video?  If not, you should view it.


"Would running the bike with the baffles removed full time cause issues ?"

Generally speaking, running with an open header is not ideal.  If you have a cam with any overlap and TDC lift (i.e. the DR650 cam), an open header causes lots of exhaust reversion, so the carb is almost impossible to dial in at part throttle.  It will work good at WOT high rpm, but it will cruise lousy.  It is also anti-social and obnoxious.  Don't run it like that.  Just a test is OK; permanent not OK.  Runs bad, sounds bad, is bad.

The stuttering, blubbering, misfiring & backfiring can be caused by overly rich or lean mixtures.  In general, overly rich won't hurt it....but overly lean is another story.  I can't say for sure if you are rich or lean, but running without the air filter, and with an open exhaust, and with more displacement, and more compression, and with a hotter cam should make it lean if you have a stock main jet (#155 for early model LS).  As mentioned before, that assumes no one has drilled out that main jet.  It also assumes your main air bleed is correct and not plugged.  It also assumes your needle and needle jet are stock and the needle height is within acceptable limits (i.e. not pulling out of the needle jet).  Generally, rich mixtures cause blubbering at WOT (your vid sounded that way to me, but it's a vid); lean mixtures cause high rpm backfiring, popping out the carb, and misfiring.   Rich dull sound, lean sharp crackle.

How is your spark plug lookin now?  Is it still black as coal?  Rich mixture, black plug.  Lean mixture, white plug.

Good clear pictures of all this stuff along with data regarding the markings on each component would be most helpful.  A nice clear shot of your main airbleed illuminated would be nice.  If you take that extension pipe off your exhaust, take photos with the baffle illuminated so we can see what that looks like.  Pull the spark plug and post a photo of it now after you got it runnin better.  It's very difficult to help you without photos.
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #71 - 05/22/23 at 17:21:37
 
Thanks for the assignment, Mike. Ill get on that today Smiley

The previous owner had messed with the carb And he did drill out the 155 main jet but I have replaced it with another 155. I have bigger jets arriving this week in case they are needed.

The open header is extremely loud but ill give it a quick test.
I cleaned the carb again yesterday after running the velocity stack.

I notice when I disassemble the needle (which doesn't come out of the jet when all the way out) that the spring can easily push past the clip with minor wriggling. Maybe its not the factory spring? To prevent this I used the aftermarket needle with 3 setting, moved the clip to the top and added spacers that are slightly bigger. NOTE: I did this yesterday and have not run the bike with this yet.

I will order a whole new needle and clips/spacer. Maybe I should just try one of those Ebay carbs
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #72 - 05/22/23 at 18:59:39
 
I had a problem once and it turned out to be float height.
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #73 - 05/22/23 at 19:31:49
 
Hey vers. How did you check it was the float height and what were the symptoms
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Re: Shortened air-filter pipe leads to sputtering
Reply #74 - 05/22/23 at 20:26:04
 
Here is a picture of the spark plug after about  90kms with the velocity stack.
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