Thumperman wrote on 05/04/23 at 08:23:18:


They are generally nothing but trouble, not many reputable brands.

My Cafe' Savage has an EarthX brand.
https://earthxbatteries.com/product/etx12a/

I installed it 10 years ago and it is still working just fine.  It has never been on a charger and every spring it fires right up....a lithium battery doesn't lose power when sitting like a lead acid battery does.

The Savage doesn't have any "parasite" electrical draw like a clock, or USB charger....when you turn off the key there is nothing drawing power from the battery.  If you do have a bike that draws power while turned off.....then a battery tender will be required (with any battery).  

If you allow a Lithium Ion battery to discharge - they are generally ruined.  Some brands have a "shut off" that disconnects the batter when the voltage gets low so that you won't ruin the battery.

Dave wrote on 05/04/23 at 10:48:18:

If you allow a Lithium Ion battery to discharge - they are generally ruined.  Some brands have a "shut off" that disconnects the batter when the voltage gets low so that you won't ruin the battery.

Right. A conventional battery looses 1% charge per day, whereas a Lithium battery looses 1% per month.

A battery will a BMS will prevent over charging and will shut the battery down when the voltage drops below 12VDC. When a battery goes into low voltage protection mode my Battery Tender doesn't "see" the battery and therefore doesn't charge it. I have to use a conventional battery charger for about 10 minutes to "wake the battery up" (getting it over 12VDC) and then I can use the Battery Tender to complete the job.

Even with that one oddity - I find having a Lithium battery a joy. My bikes don't operate weekly and sometimes it could be well over a month. The lithium batteries crack these bikes over like they were started the day before.

[quote author=382B3C3D222F292B207F4E0 link=1683213798/0#4 date=1683223755]Dave wrote on 05/04/23 at 10:48:18:


Oh yeah....forgot about that.  I took my electric compression release and controller off, and I have a manual compression release (that I seldom need to use).

Pretty much the same experience as Dave except it's been about 8 years, I have an Antigravity battery, and I managed to kill one of their batteries!

I left the lights on the different times (three different ways too   ).  It survived the first two incidents with a jump from a car (not running), but the third time killed it.

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See, thats concerning, since it failed from being over discharged that means it does not have a proper protection circuit. A lithium battery with no protection circuit is a fire risk if overcharged, or if charged too quick after an over discharge.

There is a reason why EV auto makers design their batteries with all kinds of cooling systems, protection circuits, "smart" charging, etc - and they still sometimes self ignite.

I just don't trust these aftermarket lithium batteries, they are not made by established brands, and I don't know what quality cells they are using, and I don't trust their protection circuits.

Thanks for the input, I ordered a parts unlimited battery. All the normal outlets showed zero stock on the Duraboost batteries. Kinda spendy but the Li-ion batteries seem to behave better then the lead acid batteries.

You seem to think that all lithium chemistries are the same - and that certainly isn't the case.

Most of the lithium batteries used for high-density automotive applications are LiCoO2 or LiNiMnCoO2. These are inherently unstable and do require cooling during charging and use to eliminate (minimize) the risk of thermal runaway. These batteries are chosen because they can provide energy density (storage capacity) greater than 350 Wh/L.

Power Sport (Motorcycle) batteries use a LiFePO4 chemistry (which I noted in my first post above). These batteries have a lower storage capacity between 200-250 Wh/L but are inherently stable and therefore do not require cooling. In fact, Tesla is now using LiFePO4 batteries as for vehicles sold as "standard range".

There are other chemistries in testing that offer higher storage than LiCoO2 and are inherrently stable. These include lithium-sulfur and lithium-silicon carbon. These batteries are also inherently stable can offer storage capacities in excess of 500Wh/L.

This is all a long winded way of saying (but 100% on topic) not all Lithium batteries are the same. Each chemistry has advantages and disadvantages - and the technology is improving all of the time.

Like it or not, we are heading towards a future where the batteries mean everything. It's worth your effort to know the differences in available batteries so you can be an informed user/buyer.   [/quote]

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Of course not all lithium battery chemistries are the same, and I don't claim to have a good understanding of different chemistries. To the best of my knowledge however, all of them have a potential to self combust, just some are more stable than others, and all of them will combust under improper charging conditions.

That being said, I have no problem with lithium batteries, I am just wary of batteries from non established brands. I am a long time flashlight enthusiast, and I've heard many horror stories from exploding 18650 batteries - there is a guy on candlepower forums with permanent lung damage sustained from smoke he inhaled when a single 18650 cell exploded in his room.

There are many bad lithium cells on the market, a lot of them are reconditioned used cells, and I'm afraid unknown brands may be using these reconditioned cells to build automotive batteries. There is no way I am taking the risk - I'll wait until mainstream brands start selling lithium automotive batteries. Even for my flashlights I only buy 18650s and 21700s from reputable brands (Panasonic, Tenergy), and only from known sources, as there are plenty of fakes on ebay/amazon.