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Electrification (Read 122 times)
WebsterMark
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Electrification
04/12/23 at 04:38:09
 
So Puddinhead waves his wand and set’s emission standards with the goal to eliminate a massive portion of gas powered vehicles in 10 years.

This has zero chance of actually working. There’s no way the infrastructure can transition that quickly. I just read this article reporting on a paper looking at the needed supply chain.

Why are we doing this? Why not develop nuclear to replace coal and let market demand respond to better battery technology as it’s developed to drive the transition to EV?

I was at Honda motorcycle dealer yesterday and the Zero electric motorcycles were $17k.

https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2023/04/critical-metal-needs-rise-while-cars-tr
ucks-decarbonize

“Monotonic growth in global demand for critical metals to 2050 is the most prevalent trend,” You said. “It’s mainly driven by the electric vehicle market penetration and battery technology development.”

If achieving a scenario where 40% of vehicles are electric by 2050, the need for lithium globally will increase 2,909% from the 2020 level. If 100% of vehicles are electric by 2050, the need for lithium more than doubles, to 7,513%.

From the years 2010 to 2050, in a scenario where all vehicles are electric, the annual demand for lithium globally increases from 747 metric tons to 2.2 million metric tons.

By mid-century, for example, the demand for nickel eclipses other critical metals, as the global need ranges from 2 million metric tons, where 40% of vehicles are electric, to 5.2 million metric tons where all vehicles are electric.

The annual demand for cobalt (ranging from 0.3 to 0.8 million metric tons) and manganese (ranging from 0.2 to 0.5 million metric tons) will rise by the same order of magnitude in 2050, according to the paper.

Currently, critical metals and minerals are centralized in politically unstable Chile, Congo, Indonesia, Brazil, Argentina and South Africa, according to the World Bank.

“The unstable supplies of critical metals and minerals can exacerbate supply risks under surging demand,” You said.
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zevenenergie
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Re: Electrification
Reply #1 - 04/12/23 at 11:30:33
 
Can i have some of these materials you talk about ?Because I only have aluminum, bronze and steel lying around here, and some zinc and brass and copper. And som tin (solder)
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Do what you know is right. (you can always use fear as a counselor later)
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Eegore
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Re: Electrification
Reply #2 - 04/12/23 at 16:12:47
 

 Maybe they can be powered on dreams.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Electrification
Reply #3 - 04/13/23 at 03:44:58
 
It’s just as realistic.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Electrification
Reply #4 - 04/14/23 at 01:29:35
 
The same people who screamed about running out of oil a few years ago believe the earth has the minerals for endless batteries. Drilling for oil, bad.. The tanks and pump jack that support a well that provides the oil for industry and gas don't wreck the environment near like those huge, awful windmills that use things that don't recycle.
Anyone can see how this is going to work out. But the same people who are always wrong will not see.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: Electrification
Reply #5 - 04/14/23 at 04:05:09
 
Those pushing for all electric know it is not possible, but do so because their goal is to bankrupt our country and reduce us to a 3rd world economy, which also devastates our military capabilities and will to fight.
China takes over world leadership without firing a shot at us.
And who is assisting them in this process ?
The Big Guy and his cartel.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Electrification
Reply #6 - 04/14/23 at 05:16:14
 
LANCER wrote on 04/14/23 at 04:05:09:
Those pushing for all electric know it is not possible, but do so because their goal is to bankrupt our country and reduce us to a 3rd world economy, which also devastates our military capabilities and will to fight.
China takes over world leadership without firing a shot at us.
And who is assisting them in this process ?
The Big Guy and his cartel.


But the thing is, they’ve convinced themselves it is possible. They are not plotting to actively destroy the country, they wouldn’t do that. But they’re so completely blinded by this warped ideology, they only see what they want to see. It’s the age-old quest for power. Money may be the root of all evil but absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Look at the ridiculous climate change narrative that’s been going on for 20-30 years now and has penetrated virtually every segment of society yet the minuscule effects are completely unnoticeable to the general public. So with that as the base, how hard is it really to convince the masses to go backwards in time, to give up freedom, to be colder in the winter, to eat bland foods….  Part of how this succeeds is those doing the talking imagine themselves exempt from the harsh realities of their plans. You think Democratic members of Congress live next door to a house full of illegal immigrants who crossed the open border and voted for them? Hell no.


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Eegore
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Re: Electrification
Reply #7 - 04/14/23 at 06:54:10
 

"But the thing is, they’ve convinced themselves it is possible. They are not plotting to actively destroy the country, they wouldn’t do that. But they’re so completely blinded by this warped ideology, they only see what they want to see."

 Agreed.  It's ridiculous to think US politics are specifically being designed to destroy itself.  They are just idiots, not super-minds.  If any guy on the internet can see the master plan, so can everyone else, which makes the plan pretty darn weak.

 There was a similar approach to solar where one of my shops are located, they were attempting to push legislation that would require it in certain commercial applications.  An evaluation of my property showed it would take 72 years for me to get to zero .  That's efficient?  Legally requiring me to take on 72 years of energy debt.  We fought it and won.

 However looking into the same property 10 years later, the solar installation made sense as it was only an 8 year deficit.  That's how far solar efficiency and cost came in just 10 years, for me, in my specific area with the exemption of all other humans in all other known areas.

 So in my case completely blowing off solar would have been a bad decision.  Being forced to buy into it too early would have been a bad decision.  Thinking my local government was creating this legislation for the purpose of damaging itself would just be nonsense.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Electrification
Reply #8 - 04/14/23 at 15:29:30
 
How much of the ROI was based on subsidies?
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Re: Electrification
Reply #9 - 04/14/23 at 23:11:39
 

"How much of the ROI was based on subsidies?"

 For me, none as I wouldn't apply for them.  What I pay for the solar setup would save X-amount of dollars per-year in electricity payments.

 I paid up front for the solar system and the cost savings of electricity at that location and only that location with the exemption of all other known locations, added up to the price I paid for the solar system in 7 years 10 months.

 Maintenance of the system, which is practically nothing, is all I pay for electricity at this time.  So far I have had no battery failures and they are still holding 90+ charge.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Electrification
Reply #10 - 04/16/23 at 04:05:17
 
Well done. A proper use of solar.

My brother and I go camping at this one particular spot by a fast-moving stream. We try to go every year but lately we’ve slipped a bit (as a sidenote, I’m surprised that I seem to be busier the older I get. I thought it would go the other direction.) We’ve always talked about making a small turbine to throw in the flow to power lights. I’ve seen products like this, that you can buy online that are designed to do exactly that. That would be a cool thing to have.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Electrification
Reply #11 - 04/16/23 at 04:10:06
 
In a former life, I had a job where the product that was selling, was being used in energy storage systems under development. I got to go to Japan and Vancouver Canada to visit facilities and offer technical advice on our product. Ultimately, neither system was able to be commercialized. One has very specialized and very limited use.

Energy storage is the Achilles heel for this religion of renewables. It can’t be overcome.
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Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Electrification
Reply #12 - 04/16/23 at 08:55:08
 
WebsterMark wrote on 04/16/23 at 04:10:06:
It can’t be overcome.

Famous last words
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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WebsterMark
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Re: Electrification
Reply #13 - 04/16/23 at 17:16:13
 
Researchers have been working on this for decades and have made very little progress. The widespread use of batteries in cars was not a new discovery, it was money put into manufacturing to modestly refine known technology and then mass produce a battery suitable for vehicles. There is no technology that holds large quantities of energy in relatively small areas for long periods of time that can cycle repeatedly. That’s what’s missing from the solar, wind power generation.

Now you can channel your inner Tinkerbell and say you do believe in fairies and that renewables can power the energy needs of the future…..they’re both fantasy.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Electrification
Reply #14 - 04/17/23 at 03:17:25
 
Happened to see the article below while reading this morning.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/lithium-ion-battery-disruption-ready
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