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Picking the best pistol caliber (Read 787 times)
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Picking the best pistol caliber
04/05/23 at 06:14:51
 

I am buying a police trade in Glock 22 on the cheap.  My state just did away with a lot of the pistol purchase permit bullshite, so I can order anywhere on line and just get it shipped in to my local gun store.

This was a long term researched choice for me.  I have a lot of freedom to chose as I have reloading and casting skills out the wazoo.

And I like to cheat too, a lot.

I was tempted by a long slide Glock format.  I wanted a 10mm bullet because they simply do meat better than 9mm bullets when buying jacketed.   Plus, cast lead bullets for 9mm suck, while 10mm truncated cone cast lead bullet designs don't suck near as badly.

I was prone to try to overcome the 9mm craze as historically you had to shoot somebody 3 times with a 9mm to get them to lie down quietly.  This difference has dropped by mebbe one shot recently due to better bullets, but these better bullets were actually developed for the 40 cal FBI criteria, and surprise surprise the bullets still work better in 40 (10mm) than they do in 9mm.


Cheat list:

A 9mm carries 2 extra rounds compared to a 40 caliber.
Buy an aftermarket magazine floor plate and pick up a round or two.  Or, simply ignore the issue as if you shoot more than 3 times you are a murderous crazy person in the modern liberal DA's eyes.

My cheat was a 30 round extended mag for any extra rounds needed upon reloading, should you ever had the pressing need to reload.  Note to self: getting into a running slug slinging contest should always be avoidable.

I can't see pistol sights any more and I shoot poorly now-a-days.
Research leads to the fact that you really need a flashlight on your gun so you can see who/what you are shooting at night.  A flashlight laser combo costs no more than the plain flashlight.  That little green laser dot takes care of all the shooting poorly issues, simply put the green dot center of mass over the spine.  The flashlight beam naturally centers your shots in reflex shooting.

Pistols recoil too abruptly and are too much for old people to use effectively.
I shoot a lot of lead bullets.   175 grain cast bullets given a layer of light blue powder coating really don't lead at all and they work well with Glock polygonal rifling.   The main trick is to lower the velocity to what you can tolerate, accurately.   Then practice practice practice ......  practice double taps and triple taps and shoot enough rounds monthly so you don't notice the recoil.

Use the stock open sights in practice.
This should be self explanatory.   Lasers and lights run off batteries and batteries go flat when you least expect it.   Open sights always work.  Think of the green dot as Casper the Friendly Ghost that sometimes shows up over your front sight.

Last cheat, velocity for free
I needed to get past recoil and accuracy issues.  I also needed a way to shoot up old ammo and failed experiments.

I bought a stainless steel "cut rifling" barrel for my gun in a 6" long format.  Yes, it sticks out in the air in front of the gun.  But I pick up a instant free 100fps on all loads shot and I totally change the recoil characteristics of the gun getting rid of the sharp recoil upward snap.


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« Last Edit: 04/06/23 at 07:18:24 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #1 - 04/05/23 at 09:51:12
 
bought a stainless steel "cut rifling" barrel for my gun in a 6" long format.  Yes, it sticks out in the air in front of the gun.  But I pick up a instant free 100fps

That is the kinda thinking that makes me say
Why didn't I think of that?

What is the blue powder that keeps your lead out of the grooves?
Does it Hafta be stainless?

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #2 - 04/05/23 at 18:51:45
 
Hi Buddy

I was staying with the 32 cal. so I don't shoot through the first target and into something "unintended" on the other side.   I don't want any trouble with a local DA either.

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #3 - 04/06/23 at 05:31:40
 

Let me answer Justin's questions first,

What is the blue stuff?

It is Ford light blue powder coating.  A fine polymer powder is applied to a bunch of bullets, then they get put butt down on a sheet of parchment paper on a cookie sheet and cooked at 250o for a half an hour.

The powder melts and fuses into a glossy smooth coverage of polymer "paint" that is quite strong and able to survive the rifling trip down the barrel and not leak any gas.  It is so strong it can literally clean the copper out of a barrel if you fire enough of them down the tube.

Powder coat is strong and tenacious, I have pulled expanded bullets out of sand that still had the powder coat in place.

Compared to putting grease in lube grooves it is more effective.  I have a small tumbler that I just dump dry bullets into and add some powder.  10 minutes of tumbling and all the bullets are completely evenly coated and ready for the oven.

I pick mine up one at a time with intentionally powder coated finger tips, this works great.  Just remember to wash your hands before touching anything else once you got your bullets on the cookie sheet.

"Grease in groove" is expensive as the lubriciser equipment is very pricey and the time involved in using a bullet lubriciser is large.   Lots of guys "jumble pack" their powder coat bullets and just carefully dump them out on the parchment paper trusting their sizing die to smooth the mess out that is left from breaking the mass apart.  

Me  I stick with picking each bullet up and putting them down butt first on the cookie sheet so they look good and lack the pits in the coating where the stuck together bullets were joined up.

Does it Hafta be stainless?

No, it does not.  Glock polygonal rifling has always been somewhat problematical with grease lubed cast lead bullets, and I have a lot of older grease lubed rounds I need to shoot up.  

A normally rifled Glock replacement barrel is often stainless, as it is both a marketing point and a cost savings for the manufacturer because you don't have to apply a corrosion resistant finish to the barrel to keep it from rusting.
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« Last Edit: 04/06/23 at 17:12:24 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #4 - 04/06/23 at 05:41:43
 

MM,

I own a 32 caliber very small concealed carry gun.  I would plan to shoot the perp 3-4 times to just to make sure they stay down.  Or double tap them and accidentally punkin bust them on the third shot accidentally when they folded up over the first two center of mass hits and they accidentally presented you with the top of their head for a third shot.

Light guns are not nearly as effective has heavier guns.

You need to look on Youtube for clear gel tests on your particular 32 caliber gun.   The only bullet that routinely penetrated to the FBI 12" minimum was a full jacketed Fiocci brand +P round in 32 acp.

They call them durn thangs "mouse guns" for a reason.  They are only one shot kills on mouse sized targets and honestly they just piss everything else off when you shoot it at them.
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« Last Edit: 04/07/23 at 18:33:18 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #5 - 04/07/23 at 05:34:24
 
I prefer 9mm hollow point as a defense round.
Not horribly expensive.  
Enough stopping power for me, and hollow point keeps it from going through to something else.. hopefully.
And, it fits all my weapons except the shotgun.

Even this oddity.
HEY.. it fits in a saddle bag!!!
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #6 - 04/07/23 at 08:44:13
 


KelTek Sub 2000 over the years has collected some user flack for being a "heavy spring straight blow back design" that women and old people can have a hard time racking it up for the first shot.  It also is somewhat rough on thin women because the "blow back whack" is a girl shoulder eating thing.

You own a Sub2000, what is your take on this issue as you get older?

For example, I have several over-sprung auto pistols from 20 years ago that I simply cannot rack the slide any longer.   I was a lot stronger in forearm grip strength back then.

I have a couple of these that I have put back the stock wimpy springs in order to maintain "usability".


=================================


Physical training vs tuning the gun.

A stock Glock has a 5.5 pound "safety trigger".  This is to stop accidental discharges due to over-excited rookie cops holding their finger on the trigger during stressful situations.

You can tune away at this rough trigger pull, or else exercise your body to overcome it.

You are supposed to grip the Glock grip fairly hard with your right hand and cover wrap your left fist around it as you swing the gun up to pick up your sight picture.  Doing this routinely then the trigger finger has to add less force to supply the addition force to fire the gun.   It is also noted that the firm double wrapped grip makes the gun steadier during squeeze off.

This makes for a smoother follow up shot and for better loading action as having a "limp wrist" is bad for extraction and round chamber & loading as it wastes some of the recoil energy that the semi auto action depends upon.

So, I am using the just installed laser as a 'jerk detector" while I rigorously dry fire the stock police Glock to build up my weakened old man arm and shoulder muscles.

Side benefit is that the stock Glock smooths out some after 500 dry firings.

(or I got stronger, you take your pick)

My wife hates me dry firing with a laser as a jerk detector --- her cats are going nuts over the green laser beam moving around the house.  She as 3 new cats and they are not used to the laser trick.  They are fighting each other to get to the green dot and I find that sorta funny.  She doesn't.


Legal issues with a heavily modified gun.

Expect flack from liberal DA's with something to prove.  Any slight issues will get blamed on the extensively modified gun and your bloodthirsty gun nut nature.

If I ever felt the need to carry a gun seriously, my gun would go back to a completely stock police trade in appearance.  

No long magazine, no long barrel ......
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« Last Edit: 04/11/23 at 20:10:54 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #7 - 04/07/23 at 09:11:42
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 04/07/23 at 08:44:13:
Sub 2000 over the years has collected some user flack for being a "heavy spring" straight blow back design that women and old people can have a hard time with.

For example, I have several oversprung auto pistols from 20 years ago that I simply cannot rack any longer.

I have a couple I have put back to stock springs in order to maintain "usability".

You own one, what is your take on the issue as you get older?



Well.. I ain't all THAT old.. only 68.   Angry  Grin

It is not a problem for me, but I can see what it could be for those without the arm strength.  It does take a good solid tug, and you have to pull it ALL the way back.

Here is picture of the weapon unfolded.   That big knob to the left of the grip is the handle for racking in a round.
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #8 - 04/07/23 at 10:17:11
 

Dirty tricks using a pistol mounted laser.


This is just me being me.  

There are people like me on YouTube, lots of them.

You can watch some avowed anti-laser guys convert themselves in real time ......

What did they (and me) so quickly learn?

You can easily shoot repeatedly and fairly accurately from the hip while walking slowly.

You can throw your body behind some cover, then reach under or around or awkwardly up over your cover to shoot back at your BG accurately.

You don't have to have a good sight picture.  You don't even need to be able to see your gun.  You can even shoot accurately with your gun arm partially trapped under your fallen body if your wrist can still move the gun around.

Wink    ...... if you can see the green dot and your target you are good to go ......

Laser equipped guns are creating whole new shooting classifications at shooting tournaments.

Hey dudes !!!  
I do not need to be able to see my sights through my progressive line bifocal glasses any longer.


Outside at night I can shoot you easily 100 yards away from me.  I can shoot you better at night than in the daytime.

Bright sunshine is what really narrows down them shooting ranges.

If you have properly adjusted open sights you can instantly do a back check on both your laser and your open sights (the dot floats right behind and slightly below the front sight).   Both laser and hard sights must both be right if you see this systems congruence.

If your BG has a big protruding pot belly, then simply take your time and carefully shoot him in the nuts and he will never even see it coming .......


That old crip sitting in the wheel chair with a light blanket on his lap is FAR FAR FAR more dangerous than you think .........




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« Last Edit: 04/11/23 at 20:13:00 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #9 - 04/07/23 at 18:35:51
 
Thanks for the info,, very interesting.
Recently got a Bersa tpr9c and I hope to run enough through it to make reloading reasonable. Looking at the rifling,it didn't impress me with it's Crisp edges,,but the reviews were good.. Ordered it before I held one.
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #10 - 04/07/23 at 19:57:22
 
The big thing wrong with the Sub2000 is that a person can't shoot it with the headphone type ear protection .    

Thank goodness for the inside the ear protectors.   One of my Mags is a 44 round that doubles the weight of the package when loaded.   I put my laser on the bottom rail out in front of the handguard and it works just fine.

There is something I tried on the Sub2000 that didn't work.
I reloaded some lead projectiles for it , they tumbled instead of spin.  
My best guess is that : Keltec put a micro grove barrel on it that doesn't grip the projectile good enough , so I found 500 rd box of plated truncated w/flat point that are super easy to hollow point with my case trimming tool with a 3/16" drill bit mounted in it.
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #11 - 04/08/23 at 00:39:37
 

MM,

Why no headphone style muffs on the S2000?

Is it the slide knob flying back and forth attached to the hunk of steel breech blow back mass?   Or is it the fact you simply have to get down that low just to get down to the sights?

Cast you up some more lead bullets, buy some powder coat (Harbor Freight sells it fairly cheap in Harbor Freight "red" for your experiment) and bake you up some polymer jacketed (ie cheap cast lead slugs).  

My thought is that your raw lead slugs are really quite undersized to the Kel Tek chamber/throat/rifling.   Powder coat adds  .002" to your bullets and if they chamber good you do not really need to size them down (if the loaded round passes the plunk test) then your throat takes care of all that sizing upon firing.

Powder coat is tough enough to make your rifling connection for you just dandy.   Shoot a couple of dozen and look down your bore to see some really clean rifling.   I mean really clean rifling, all the trash out of them tiny corners and even the copper fouling mostly all removed .......

Warning, you will occasionally need a +.001" to +.002" LEE push through sizer if you have to size your bullets down a bit to fix a powder coat sag, dribble or run issue.   I gave up and just sized them all to .4015" as I could size them before loading them quicker than plunk testing and fixing the failure noses with a cordless drill and a file.

Almost all of my rounds would still plunk after powder coating in my Glock chamber (I pop my barrel out or use a spare barrel as my plunk tester) and I count upon any minor drag would not survive being slam loaded by the blow back action of the Kel Tec Sub 2000.

Funny thing about the Sub2000, it will fire when slightly out of full battery.  Actually, the action mass is enough to hold it shut good enough until case pressure drops after firing so whatever the gun considers "good enough" to allow the primer strike is what you are really dealing with.
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« Last Edit: 04/11/23 at 20:18:20 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #12 - 04/08/23 at 04:16:39
 

Breaking in a holster queen

My Glock 22 gen 4 was never dry fired or cycled or shot enough to even break in the parts that are intended by Glock to be broken in.

My gun hit a hard plastic duty holster and it got carried around by somebody who was not interested in shooting it.

My gun was not ever lubricated at all.  Not even the two mini drops it takes to lube the slide to steel inserts nor the finger tip oil "wipe" it takes to lube the racking disengagement ramp insert.

My gun was never cleaned because it never got dirty.

I found Glock had provided a bore brush (found with completely virgin white nylon bristles) in the plastic box along with the proof firings, paperwork, instructions manual and a pamphlet of fashionable Glock hats and other attire.


===================================


In dry firing the gun repeatedly to get my forearms and shoulders built back up to snuff I finally got the trigger system operationally all broken in.

Did research and found a lot of experts saying you don't want to spend a lot of money on lots of trick aftermarket parts as you wind up taking a lot of them back off later on due to "various issues".

For example I found there are inherent elevation issues with the laser that come from it hanging an inch and a quarter under the bore center line.   Canting the gun off vertical has always shows up in the laser to open sights relationship.  These projection errors multiply out by the increasing distance to the target.

With my sight picture being perfect on the open sights, the laser drops down to hide behind the front post at short distances then rising to "floating above the front sight" at normal longer engagement ranges.

The solution to all of this is to simply adjust the laser to be parallel to the bore axis and to train your mind that the laser dot is always an inch and a quarter below point of impact.

Once you accept what reality is, it all becomes simple and range really doesn't matter to the laser any longer.

Grin    ....... So, simply focus on the BG's spine for your side to side aiming point and hold to "center of mass" for the vertical.

Use the standard open sights by preference unless you jest plain gotta use the laser.   The laser will now hold within six inches of real, no matter how you hold it.
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« Last Edit: 04/10/23 at 10:02:25 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #13 - 04/09/23 at 05:43:00
 

So, focusing on the spine totally is a good thing for fixing the "laser vs open sights" issues.

However, modern hollow point bullets don't always reach the spine with real bone penetrating power as the bullet expansion has been carefully tuned to fall within the factory metered FBI 12"-16" minimum/maximum penetration levels.

Ammo factories and police departments really don't want lawsuits from over penetration.

HOWEVER, my standard cast lead practice ammo (even rounds that were made all soft and cuddly on purpose for teaching my daughter how to shoot well) will penetrate that deep and still break the spine bones.  

Cast lead penetrates really really well.   And old people just plain like soft and cuddly shooting as opposed to jacketed expansion harsh type shooting.

Let's talk about what you have got left to do the job after going through the 14" of the soft stuff.

Historically, a cast 45 caliber pistol bullet did the job at circa 850 fps.
Historically, a military FMJ 45acp hardball bullet did the job at 850 fps.

Both weighed around 230-250 grains of lead mass.  They did the job by penetrating --- and they did routinely exit the BG's back while doing this.

Now you are in the world of well known 10mm cast lead wide meplat based hunting bullet technology so we will go run by those rules.for a bit.


Wink        ..... let's go consult the loading manuals


Oh yes, I can do this easily with what I have on hand ........  

...... as a matter of fact I already have some hundreds of loaded rounds on hand that were built years and years ago ...... as cheap cast lead practice ammo.
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« Last Edit: 04/10/23 at 05:51:36 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #14 - 04/10/23 at 17:44:39
 

So, what else is was discovered new today?   30 round 40 S&W magazines are beyond my finger ability to load past half way.   I can't finish loading a 15 round mag all the way either.

I ordered a simple Glock magazine push device to push the round down far enough to slide in the next one.  This is a $8 piece of plastic sleeve looking thing that slides over the mag lip end and pushes the slide/rounds down and holds it there while you put in the next round.

I do not remember having a hard time simply loading Glock 22 mags -- my body has gotten all messed up and weak on me.

Angry
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