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Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod (Read 116 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #15 - 02/14/23 at 20:56:17
 
To help all of us learn more about the knock-off PWKs, it would be most generous of you to do a comparison of your PWK knock-off to the IPB.  If you do so, please take pictures and post so we can all benefit from your efforts.

The jetting you describe is so far removed from any of the jet combos folks have reported so far, it begs the question “what’s up with that?”.

The PWKs came in two different configurations, Non Air Striker & Air Striker.  The first PWK I got from Spammy was an Air Striker.  It looked like this.
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PWK_Air_Striker_Vanes_3_2_001.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #16 - 02/14/23 at 20:56:53
 
The next one I got from JFG Racing was a Non Air Striker and it looked like this.  Which type do you have, Air Striker or Non Air Striker?
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Air_Horn.JPG

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #17 - 02/14/23 at 20:58:09
 
I screwed up when I reported my pilot jet size.  It should be #35 which is the smallest OEM jet available.  Your #45 is five-times larger.  That seems pretty big to me, but the idle circuit can be affected by the slide cutaway.  Sneezy got one of these knock-offs with a #5.5 cutaway.  All three of the knock-offs I got had a #7 cutaway and they all needed the smallest pilot jet I could come up with.

This shows the two cutaways, Sneezy’s 5.5 on the right and a 7.0 on the left.
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Sneezys_5_5_vs_My_7_0.JPG

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #18 - 02/14/23 at 20:59:01
 
When installed in the carburetor, you can see how the smaller cutaway tends to nest over the needle jet hood.  This nesting causes the vacuum at the hood to rise which pulls fuel from the main circuit at idle (a similar condition occurs when you install one of Lancer’s UFOs on a VM).  Is there a chance that you have a slide that is larger than a 7.0?  A larger cutaway could necessitate a larger pilot jet to compensate.  There’s always the possibility of a vacuum leak but you mentioned you have zero air leaks.

See how the #5.5 cutaway on the right tends to nest the needle jet hood while the #7.0 cutaway on the left pretty much leaves the hood exposed.
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Slides_7_vs_5_5.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #19 - 02/14/23 at 20:59:40
 
Slides come in various sizes all the way up to #9.0.  This sketch provides measurements for #5.5 through #8.0.
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Slide_Cutaway_Dimensions_002.png

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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #20 - 02/14/23 at 21:00:25
 
It’s easy to measure the cutaway.  Just place the slide on a smooth, flat surface and use drill bits to measure the edge of the cutaway.  Here you see a #7.0 slide being measured with a letter “W” drill bit.  A letter “W” bit is .386”, close enough for me.  Howzabout taking a measurement on your slide and let us know what you’ve got.
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Slide_Cutaway_Measurement.jpg

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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #21 - 02/14/23 at 21:01:37
 
Then there’s the never-ending saga of needle jets.  All three of my PWKs had fixed needle jets captured in the metering block. Note that on the IPB, no needle jet or metering block is shown.  I figure that’s because the factory doesn’t consider those components as “replaceable” items.  Got a problem, replace the whole carb.  The metering blocks are held in place with tamper-proof screws (there’s always a way around those).

The Duderino and Sneezy both got knock-offs with removable needle jets (a nice feature IMO).  The carb on the right has a fixed needle jet, the one on the left has a removable needle jet.  Note that the one on the left with the removeable needle jet must use a different main jet.  It’s a lot shorter than a standard PWK main jet, like the one on the right.  Which configuration do you have?
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JFG_Left_Removable_NJ.jpg

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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #22 - 02/14/23 at 21:02:19
 
See how the removeable needle jet just unscrews from the metering block.  Note that it also has emulsion holes, that might be beneficial, or possibly detrimental.  Those holes and their placement can change the fuel curve.  Holes at the top affect part-throttle performance, holes at the bottom affect WOT performance.  Does your PWK have a removeable needle jet?
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Sneezys_NJ.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #23 - 02/14/23 at 21:03:02
 
The relationship between your slide needle and needle jet is critical for the majority of your operating time.  You are almost always running on the needle jet/slide needle.  Those two components control your air/fuel ratio during the majority of the time you are riding.   Generally, at WOT the needle and needle jet should be out of the picture and the main jet should be in complete control of the fuel flow.  On this particular project, it became apparent that my DGK needle was affecting WOT fuel mixture.  If the aperture between the needle and needle jet is too small, it will flow less fuel than the main jet and become the limiting factor.  Under those conditions, you can keep throwing in larger main jets with little or no effect on the WOT mixture.  To me, that sounds like a reasonable explanation for your BIG main jet.  You might wanna check that.
 
A quick &  dirty check involves removing the main jet and riding the bike.  Without the main jet in place, it should run normal until you go WOT, then at WOT it should stumble, hiccup, buck, and in general run absolutely terrible.  If it doesn’t run lousy without the main jet, the needle & needle jet are controlling flow and need to be adjusted.  A needle with a larger taper is in order.
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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #24 - 02/14/23 at 21:04:30
 
My needle jets are about .111”.  They are fixed and I’ve never tried to remove one.  Generally, needle jets are provided in sizes taken out to four decimal places.  I don’t have the tooling necessary to measure a needle jet to the degree of accuracy demanded, but I do have pin gages (only three decimal places).  My needle jets are about .111”.  You can try and check yours with the shanks of drill bits.  Be gentle, this component is critical.  A #35 is .110”. a #34 is .111”, and a #33 is .113”.  If you do check the needle jet, please let us know the results.
 
I do have the ability to accurately measure slide needles.  This table provides measurements taken off the actual needles.  The needles labeled with three letters (DGK, EGK, etc.) are genuine Keihin needles.  The other needles came from knock-off repair kits or knock-off carbs.  You may find the table useful.  As noted in this report, I had good results with a DGK combined with a .075” air bleed and a #140 to #145 main jet, but the needle was controlling WOT mixture.  I had superb results with an EGK combined with a .032” air bleed and a #135 main jet.

I use a wide band O2 sensor and A/F meter to confirm my jetting.  It’s far from perfect but it gets me very close.  I also should note that I favor rich mixtures, generally trying to hold WOT mixture in 11.0 to 12.5 range.
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Needle_JPEG_Landscape.jpg

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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #25 - 02/14/23 at 21:05:32
 
Your main jet (#160) is through-the-roof BIG.  If you look at this chart, you will see that a VM38 (carb with a similar design) would need a #330 or #340 main jet to come close to the #160 you are running.  If my memory serves me right, on an LS650, VMs usually run best with around a #190 to #210 main jet (Can you confirm that Lancer?)  Those Mikuni jets are in the range of .048” to .052”.  Assuming you are running standard Keihin jets, your PWK main jet should have an orifice about .063”.  All’s I can say is Wow!

What kind of main jet is in your carb?  Is it a standard PWK main jet?
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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #26 - 02/14/23 at 21:06:56
 
This report is about the main air bleed.  As you can see from my results, that air bleed has a significant influence on your main jet size.  As delivered, my PWKs had a .075” air bleed.  If your air bleed is larger than .075”, it will require a larger main jet.

Can you check your main air bleed and let us know what you find.  Just remove your mixture screw and use drill bits to check this hole (use the shank, not the cutting tip).   It’s easy to check.  You can use drill bits.  If it’s .075”,  a #49 drill bit will slip in but a 3/64” bit will not fit.  
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Air_Bleed___075_2_004.jpg

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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #27 - 02/14/23 at 21:09:53
 
These knock-off carbs are certainly a bargain.  You can learn a lot and have fun setting them up.  Set em up right and they make good power and run well.  They can also be a real puzzle.  That’s why it’s important to share what you learn.  If you get into your PWK, please take lots of pics and post what you learn.
 
These links provide some good tuning guidance.

Keihin North America

https://www.keihin-na.com/aftermarket/tuning/


Duncan Racing (note 2-stroke section has 4-stroke info too)

https://www.duncanracing.com/carbjetting


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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #28 - 02/14/23 at 21:14:05
 
Thanks Sneezy.  Hey, you don't need a lathe for this project.  You can trim that jet down with a drill and a file.
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Re: Keihin PWK Main Air Bleed Mod
Reply #29 - 02/15/23 at 03:58:19
 
Thanks DBM!  Can’t say I’ve completely torn mine down, but what I can see and remember is the same as the illustration.  I need to go to Harbor Freight and get one of those needle measuring gizmos.  I’m beginning to think my jets aren’t true to size (cheap knock off jets too, lol).  Maybe I’m getting lucky with these knock offs, but it sure works well for 1/10 the cost of the stock Mikuni (stupid expensive).  Love the snappy responsiveness of the PWK especially in the mid-range (no issues, much better than the Mikuni CV carb).
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