SuzukiSavage.com - Won't That be a sight!!??

Eegore

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Re: Won't That be a sight!!??
Reply #15 - 12/01/22 at 19:43:53

"No. Compare the horror of a jetliner crash. Mucho carnage is often the result. But man miles traveled per fatality shows it's The safest travel."

I agree, even if we take all the drug-trade, airline CEO corruption, and the Government run TSA implementation, basically all the bad things we could look up regarding air travel - all of those things have to be compared to the number of flight events where there were no negative results. Otherwise we are just drudging up negative after negative with no applied value since it lacks comparative substance.

The bad events should be compared, like MILLIONS of oil barrels, to the positive events.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Won't That be a sight!!?? Reply #16 - 12/01/22 at 21:31:21 And thus far, based on the insignificant percentage of vehicles on the road, the crashes from autopilot, whether operator was outside of recommended parameters or not, the crashes, the fires, I think they are overrepresented in the Big Drama department considering how few there are.
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Eegore

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Re: Won't That be a sight!!??
Reply #17 - 12/02/22 at 05:59:28

So using Big Oil as an example for climate change, what value does the Hockey Stick graph have as an argument against oil?

Technically the hockey stick is mostly accurate. If we break it down only the last few portions, the outliers are up for debate. So should we be using these climate change models as a basis for climate change fact since these graphs are for the most part, entirely accurate?

We know we should compare positive/neutral results against negative, like oil spills, but what about information promoting climate change risk?

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Won't That be a sight!!??
Reply #18 - 12/02/22 at 06:25:19

Technically the hockey stick is mostly accurate.

No.

The data used to create it
Destroyed.
We can't believe what we are told. For the last time, please, read,remember.

They Retired the weather stations in places distant From the heat islands of society. I watched the news.It was open and admitted And they followed it up with admitting they knew that would yield higher temperatures, and they said
We will compensate by adjusting the data down. That was before I was a dad. She is soon to be 36,
You don't remember the emails from Climate Gate? Someone Wants people believing in this fake problem. It's a Fake problem.
The information available is not to be trusted, just like the information that was The Truth that justified our entry into Vietnam. It was all lies. But Someone Wanted the people to support the action, so they lied. What,? Government doesn't LIE? Take the jabs! You won't get it, transmit it, die from it. You can pretend That was The Science.. I'm not buying it. You can stop wasting your time and mine trying to pretend there is even the slightest reason to believe anything from a government mouth or paid Scientist that global warming is a problem that we caused or can reverse.

Funny thing about how much the words of Maurice Strong keep popping up.

The whole point is to get People to agree that People are the problem.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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Eegore

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Re: Won't That be a sight!!??
Reply #19 - 12/02/22 at 07:25:13

"You can stop wasting your time and mine trying to pretend there is even the slightest reason to believe anything from a government mouth or paid Scientist that global warming is a problem that we caused or can reverse."

Mathematically the hockey stick is mostly accurate. It's only the end uptick that is often times altered for effect. We don't need to argue about that, the point is the overall weather documentation over time.

Would you agree it doesn't make a lot of sense to look at only a portion of the overall evidence?

Would it be a good argument to say that the predictions of hockey-stick style climate change models haven't come true, even though we can point to specific events like hurricanes or surface glacier volume?

I mean if I start looking up adverse weather impact, I could find it right?

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Won't That be a sight!!??
Reply #20 - 12/02/22 at 08:26:28

Eegore wrote on 12/02/22 at 07:25:13:

"You can stop wasting your time and mine trying to pretend there is even the slightest reason to believe anything from a government mouth or paid Scientist that global warming is a problem that we caused or can reverse."

Mathematically the hockey stick is mostly accurate. It's only the end uptick that is often times altered for effect.

So, Now it's okay to be expected to sort wheat from chaff, and throw out the lies?
I'm pretty sure you have upbraided me several times for offering data loaded with bullshit. Just use the good stuff. Right?

We don't need to argue about that, the point is the overall weather documentation over time.

Why would I believe anything from the outfit that is trying to convince Me that I am the problem?
Would you agree it doesn't make a lot of sense to look at only a portion of the overall evidence?

I would LOVE to Look at the Evidence. Who do I trust to present the evidence?
I'm going to have to rely on my lying eyes.

Would it be a good argument to say that the predictions of hockey-stick style climate change models haven't come true,
Haven't come True? Not even almost come True. They have been telling us about the dire consequences for decades. It's been as accurate as
The Laptop is Russian disinformation.

even though we can point to specific events like hurricanes
And what exactly do you have to say about hurricanes? That after the dire warning of

More and Bigger that Florida made about ten years without a big one?

or surface glacier volume?

So what? The history of the world shows ice ages coming and going. It was WARMER IN THE MEDIEVAL ERA THAN IT IS NOW.

I mean if I start looking up adverse weather impact, I could find it right?

Depends on what you call adverse. And then you have to decide if the data that supports the reports are dependable.

YaKnow, for such a smart guy you sure have trouble getting 2+2 to add up to 4.

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Eegore

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Re: Won't That be a sight!!??
Reply #21 - 12/02/22 at 08:54:28

YaKnow, for such a smart guy you sure have trouble getting 2+2 to add up to 4.

Sure. You are proving my points here:

So, Now it's okay to be expected to sort wheat from chaff, and throw out the lies?

It's not. That's why I am asking. It doesn't make sense to provide evidence that has incorrect information and then say "the point is" global warming is fact/fiction - Oil is good/bad etc. The argument isn't the issue, the method is. What use is it for me to bring up evidence that is incorrect, even partially, and then tell You that You are missing the point?

We can agree that if many hockey stick global climate models were true we would see and feel the impacts substantially by now. So bringing up more hurricane and flood events isn't exactly enough to "prove" the warming models. Around every corner will be another "Expert" claiming humans will cease to exist in 10 years.

Also we agree, I believe, that vilifying Big Oil as an entire industry because of corrupt executives ignores the impact of actual oil. What good would it do for me to keep bringing up past legal issues and saying this is a reason to end oil as fuel?

Last we agree that the value of damage reports from Big Oil need to be compared to the overall dispersal of oil as a whole without negative impacts or they really hold no value. Its even harder to make a comparison when the evidence (like a hockey stick model) has not provided the results claimed.

Sorting out the lies has to come from the method not the argument.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Won't That be a sight!!?? Reply #22 - 12/02/22 at 09:01:33 Arrite. I'm good, I think, with where we are on this, the only thing that we haven't nailed down is EVs are overrepresented in the Drama department considering how few there are and how few ManMiles they have provided.
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Eegore

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Re: Won't That be a sight!!??
Reply #23 - 12/02/22 at 09:08:03

"EVs are overrepresented in the Drama department considering how few there are and how few ManMiles they have provided."

Well they are oversimplified in the solution to emissions problem. It's too easy to vilify lying Oil execs, show out of context images of oil spills like they happen every week, toss up a Facebook post of a disproven climate model and say oil is a problem only EV can solve.

Like saying Solar can power entire cities. It can, but the volume isn't compared to output, it is over simplified. They just look at the one side, the positive side.

And this here:

You can stop wasting your time and mine trying to pretend there is even the slightest reason to believe anything from a government mouth or paid Scientist that global warming is a problem that we caused or can reverse.

Could also be:

You can stop wasting your time and mine trying to pretend there is even the slightest reason to believe anything from Twitter/Facebook or paid Website with historical inaccuracies they never correct, that massive youth heart attack rates are a problem that a vaccine caused.

Twitter and Facebook, to me, are Your Government officials and paid Scientists. You see it?

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Won't That be a sight!!?? Reply #24 - 12/02/22 at 10:43:22 Unlike the Warmists, and the government media truth manufacturers, the things you are critical of, rightfully, are not wrong every time.
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Eegore

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Re: Won't That be a sight!!??
Reply #25 - 12/02/22 at 10:55:51

"Unlike the Warmists, and the government media truth manufacturers, the things you are critical of, rightfully, are not wrong every time."

Well I don't follow much of the climate change info to begin with beyond a specific region of CO due to a huge AG project I got involved in because we didn't think less than .5% temp average had a significant impact. We were tasked to disprove the model but couldn't. Turns out my meteorologist friend knows his stuff.

So I'm not trying to start a debate here, I am trying to collaborate our assessment methods.

Just as your assessment of a paid Scientist is equal to my assessment of a poorly referenced website article or Facebook image, it is safe to say my assessment of vaccine impact (not efficacy, that's a different issue) mandates a comparative value, just like your assessment of oil spill damage mandates a comparative value to oil used with no negative impact.

Lying Oil execs aren't a strong argument against comparative volume of oil damage to humans, just as lying Pfizer execs aren't a strong argument against comparative volume of youth heart attacks, or cardiac issues in general. Those both create distrust in their agendas, but are still not valid arguments for comparative volume of impact.

Am I creating a decent example for our methods of assessment? Not the end results of our examples.

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« Last Edit: 12/02/22 at 12:07:11 by Eegore »

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