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Elon taking on Bot's girl (Read 123 times)
Eegore
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #15 - 11/04/22 at 09:11:55
 
 If the FBI had this ability they didn't use it very well.  Twitter staffed people to manage this project and .

 The thing about "backdoor" claims is that it pisses people off, so it's an overused term in my opinion to rile people up.  Anytime any organization wants access to something they call it "backdoor" this and "backdoor" that.

 As usual it comes down to personal definitions.  Backdoor access, to me, means the FBI can access information on Twitter using FBI staff and resources.  They have access.  

 If the FBI needs Twitter to compile and hand over information, they do not have backdoor access.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #16 - 11/04/22 at 09:20:19
 
That would be the definition I agree with. A backdoor means you can go in without help and do what you want,
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #17 - 11/04/22 at 14:58:00
 
I disagree with you on this Eegore. When the FBI applies pressure to social media companies by telling them to censor content under the false pretense that the information is fabricated to effect an election in one direction (when in fact they did that to effect the election in another direction) and the effect of that is people using this platform as a means to express themselves, having been told this was a means to publicly do so, are forbidden to do so, is a 1st Amendment case.
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Eegore
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #18 - 11/04/22 at 16:10:49
 
I disagree with you on this Eegore. When the FBI applies pressure to social media companies by telling them to censor content under the false pretense that the information is fabricated to effect an election in one direction (when in fact they did that to effect the election in another direction) and the effect of that is people using this platform as a means to express themselves, having been told this was a means to publicly do so, are forbidden to do so, is a 1st Amendment case.


 It may be when you take the case against the FBI because the FBI has a responsibility to protect the 1st Amendment.  Taking that same argument to court against Twitter would go nowhere.  When Twitter does something people don't like they conveniently forget they have media rights, protected under the 1st Amendment.  But they remember those media rights all the sudden when FOX news is on TV.

 If Twitter chooses to work with the government there is no legal recourse.  But if the government forces Twitter to work with the government then there is legal recourse as long as proof evident standards are met.  I'm not sure why people have such a hard time understanding they have no right to use Twitter, and Twitter has no obligation to allow anyone - of any political affiliation - to use their medium.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #19 - 11/04/22 at 16:49:47
 
Still not about legalities.
It's the fact that someone chose to crush the voices of everyone who engaged in Wrong speak
And the GOVERNMENT asked them to.
So, two bad actors.
Government and tech.
It's
FUKKING
WRONG
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Eegore
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #20 - 11/04/22 at 20:43:29
 
"It's the fact that someone chose to crush the voices of everyone who engaged in Wrong speak"

 True but it was on their property, that every single user agreed to.  Not your property, not public property, their property.

 You have no rights or privileges in regards to Twitter.  None.  Why would anyone expect that?


"And the GOVERNMENT asked them to."

 Twitter actually approached the GOVERNMENT themselves with the program, but yeah the GOVERNMENT asked them to censor certain posts, and Twitter chose to coordinate.  

 Where is the line where we say its not

FUKKING
WRONG

 for a private company to work with the GOVERNMENT by choice?




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« Last Edit: 11/04/22 at 23:32:25 by Eegore »  
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #21 - 11/05/22 at 17:10:26
 
Eegore wrote on 11/04/22 at 20:43:29:
"... it was on their property,
... Not your property,
..not public property,
.their property.


Would that be kinda like a 'baker' of cakes' ?
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Eegore
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #22 - 11/05/22 at 19:30:41
 

Would that be kinda like a 'baker' of cakes' ?

 Kinda, but like Webstermark pointed out, it is unlikely cake bakers can change the outcome of presidential elections.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #23 - 11/06/22 at 03:26:42
 
Eegore wrote on 11/04/22 at 20:43:29:
"It's the fact that someone chose to crush the voices of everyone who engaged in Wrong speak"

 True but it was on their property, that every single user agreed to.  Not your property, not public property, their property.

 You have no rights or privileges in regards to Twitter.  None.  Why would anyone expect that?


"And the GOVERNMENT asked them to."

 Twitter actually approached the GOVERNMENT themselves with the program, but yeah the GOVERNMENT asked them to censor certain posts, and Twitter chose to coordinate.  

 Where is the line where we say its not

FUKKING
WRONG

 for a private company to work with the GOVERNMENT by choice?







It's wrong
For government to use them to crush the voices of everyone who engages in WrongThink.
It's wrong to play along with it.

Just because you CALL something Mis or Dis information, that doesn't make it so.
And even If it's incorrect, the answer is not to cut out your tongue, but to have the conversation.

Don't you see what tyranny you are agreeing with?
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Eegore
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #24 - 11/06/22 at 04:52:30
 

"Don't you see what tyranny you are agreeing with?"

 Don't you see I am not agreeing with it?

 Again, like almost every conversation we have, acknowledging the law is not equal to agreeing with it.  Acknowledging Twitter has no obligation to protect your rights is not equal to agreeing with their operating procedures.  

 I just think if people are going to pull out the "Free Speech" card, it should be accurate and actually apply to free speech.
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #25 - 11/06/22 at 05:11:52
 
I think what you’re failing to see is when social media platforms become so prevalent, so widespread that the government intervening in what gets published in order to affect an election in a manner that they want, is the same as if the government directly censored information. It’s a subtle difference that wouldn’t apply to a small newspaper with a subscription 500 but it does apply to social media platforms that reach the vast majority of the population. Even if you don’t have anything to do with social media, don’t have an account etc, the fact is their presence impacts the lives of everyone else because they control so much of the information whether directly or indirectly.

I agree there are nuances in this argument that make it impossible to draw on historical examples because there are no historical examples. This is unchartered territory.
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #26 - 11/06/22 at 07:30:24
 

 I'm not saying that there isn't a direct and effective influence due to the astronomical impact social media has on today's society.  I am saying that there aren't current laws that require private companies protect your rights no matter how many times people complain about Twitter violating their free speech because they voluntarily went to the government.  

 Or how it was claimed on here before that Twitter was "abusing" Alex Jones by not letting him use their property.  Abuse?  Get real.
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #27 - 11/06/22 at 15:13:57
 
Eegore wrote on 11/06/22 at 07:30:24:
 I'm not saying that there isn't a direct and effective influence due to the astronomical impact social media has on today's society.  I am saying that there aren't current laws that require private companies protect your rights no matter how many times people complain about Twitter violating their free speech because they voluntarily went to the government.  

 Or how it was claimed on here before that Twitter was "abusing" Alex Jones by not letting him use their property.  Abuse?  Get real.


Did the FBI ask Twitter to remove his posts claiming they were fabricated by Russia because they felt it would help their preferred candidate win an election? Otherwise, that’s not a valid comparison.  
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Eegore
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Re: Elon taking on Bot's girl
Reply #28 - 11/07/22 at 05:19:44
 

"Did the FBI ask Twitter to remove his posts claiming they were fabricated by Russia because they felt it would help their preferred candidate win an election? Otherwise, that’s not a valid comparison. "

 If comparing corporate monopolization and mergers is valid then incorrect free speech assessments and abuse should be valid.   I think believing that Social media companies have an obligation to protect your rights, or that it its "abuse" if they kick you off their services is part of this problem.  

 The issue is with the FBI, or the US Government in general and it has to do with the legal and voluntary actions of private companies.  Not the illegal actions of public services.
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