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Stock Carb Rebuild Kits (Read 164 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #15 - 01/02/22 at 17:08:52
 
The seat looks good.  The o-ring on the seat looks good.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #16 - 01/02/22 at 17:09:27
 
What about the size of the hole?  It’s important, has to pass enough fuel.  The new seat has a .099” hole.
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #17 - 01/02/22 at 17:10:13
 
The OEM seat has a .108” hole.  It’s only .009” bigger than the new seat.  Such a small difference, no big deal, right?  Actually, that’s a pretty big deal.  The cross section on the new seat is 19.5% less than the cross section on an OEM seat.  I suspect the smaller hole will result in a dramatic reduction in fuel delivery.   Another one-way ticket to meltdown.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #18 - 01/02/22 at 17:11:36
 
OK, I guess we could use the new needle and the new screen with the old seat.  The needles have a soft tip, so the seat shouldn’t wear out.  Take out the old seat, clean it up, replace the o-ring & screen, reinstall with the new needle.  Should work.

Let’s look at the needle jet.  It’s identified on the illustrated parts breakdown as “piece 11, jet, needle (X-7M), P/N 09494-00861, $40.45”.

The needle jet is an important jet.  The slide needle and needle jet work together to control your mixture during 99% of your ride.  The OEM needle jet is expensive.  Let’s hope the new needle jet provided in the kit is up to snuff.

Right off the bat you can see a big difference.  The new needle jet is brass, the OEM needle jet is stainless steel.  Just my opinion, but I think that’s an important distinction.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #19 - 01/02/22 at 17:13:21
 
Constant velocity carburetors (the kind with the big diaphragm on top) use a slide assembly that is raised and lowered by air flow through the venturi.  Your throttle cable is not connected to the slide.  The slide goes up and down based on air flow.  Air flows when the intake valves are open; and stops flowing when the intake valves are closed.  So, when you are cruising at 3500 rpm, air flow through your carburetor starts and stops 1750 times per minute.  That’s about 30 cycles per second.  If you have ever looked in the throat of one of these CV carbs while the engine is running, you probably noticed that when you increase the rpm the slide starts bouncing up and down.  It’s constantly buzzin.  Soft brass needles and needle jets don’t hold up well.  I believe that is why the OEM carb uses a stainless-steel needle jet with an anodized aluminum slide needle.  They don’t want these critical components wearing out prematurely.  It’s an emissions thing, gotta last.

So, we have a brass needle jet.  It might wear out kinda fast.  No biggie, the whole kit is only $10 bucks.  Just plan on changing it out a little sooner.  How about the dimensions?

OEM needle jet orifice is .121”.  The new needle jet orifice is .119”.  Pretty close.  Only a .002” difference.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #20 - 01/02/22 at 17:14:29
 
Here we go with them little numbers again.  Two thousandths of an inch (.002”) is not a small number in the world of jets, and in particular needle jets.  Mikuni needle jets come in increments of about two ten-thousandths of an inch (.0002”).  Changing the orifice size (hole) in a needle jet by .002” is essentially like changing 10 sizes.  Making the hole .002” smaller is like going ten jet-sizes leaner.  It’s like changing from a Q-9 to a Q-0 on a Mikuni VM.

How about the emulsion holes?  The new brass needle jet has 8 emulsion holes.  Each hole is .028”, and they are in the same location as the OEM jet emulsion holes.  The emulsion holes on the OEM needle jet are only .026”.  Bigger emulsion holes add more air and lean out the mixture.  Double whammy.  Smaller jet orifice (.119”) combined with larger emulsion holes (.028") equals lean mixture.
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #21 - 01/02/22 at 17:15:55
 
Let’s look at the slide needle.  It’s identified on the illustrated parts breakdown as “piece 10, needle (5C17), P/N 13383-24C40, $14.37”.  The OEM needle is anodized aluminum and has a single groove for the locating clip.  The new kit needle is brass and has three grooves for the locating clip.  The soft brass material is a bummer, but having the additional adjustment afforded by the two extra grooves is nice.
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #22 - 01/02/22 at 17:16:53
 
An easy way to compare a couple of slide needles is to use a dial caliper.  Just see how the needles line up when they are inserted side-by-side between the anvils of the caliper.  Close to the tips, the needles are almost the same diameter.  Here you see the stock needle (anodized aluminum) next to the new needle that came in the kit (brass).  The caliper is set to .100”.   The center groove on the brass needle sits slightly lower than the groove on the aluminum needle.
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #23 - 01/02/22 at 17:17:31
 
With the caliper set to .105”, you see that the new brass needle moves down just a bit more in relation to the the stock needle, indicating it would be a bit richer than the stock needle at about half-throttle.
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #24 - 01/02/22 at 17:18:19
 
At .110” the brass needle sits even lower in relation to the stock needle, indicating that it would be even richer at about ¼ throttle.
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #25 - 01/02/22 at 17:19:08
 
And by .115”, the brass needle is runnin away from the stock aluminum needle.  This indicates that the new kit needle would be a lot richer at very small throttle openings.
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #26 - 01/02/22 at 17:20:12
 
The new kit needle is right at .0990” at the tip, same as the stock needle.  At the shank (top), the new kit needle is .1170” while the stock needle is .1180”.  That might seem like a good thing.  Hey, the new needle is richer, right?  But the orifice that it goes in is .002” smaller than stock, so the end result will be leaner everywhere.

I might be able to find some use for this new brass needle, but it’s a total crap shoot.  Who knows, it might even work OK with the screwy needle jet provided in the kit, but I suspect it would be a struggle.  Let’s face it, none of these parts would qualify as a component that meets or exceeds factory specifications.  This is certainly not “rebuild” quality.

Last thing to look at is the gasket.  This is how the plant-fiber gasket came out of the package.  I’m not putting that in a fuel system.
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #27 - 01/02/22 at 17:21:29
 
A new carburetor (13200-24C42) costs $573.54.  If you substituted genuine Suzuki parts for the items provided in this kit, it would set you back about $203 and you still would have the same old TEV and slide assembly.

The only kit I could find on-line that looked like it might have a good chance of working was the Parts Unlimited kit (1003-1386) offered by Dennis Kirk (currently out of stock).  This is a picture of the parts in that kit.  The material list states that the main jet is a #145 and the pilot jet is a #52.5 (always a good sign when the sizes comply with specs).  Note that the mixture screw looks correct, and the slide needle is anodized aluminum, and the gasket looks like actual composite gasket material (not plant fiber).  This kit will set you back about $40 to $50 bucks.  Five times more expensive than the All About Carbs kit, but ya get what ya pay for.
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #28 - 01/02/22 at 17:22:20
 
The Parts Unlimited 1003-1386 kit is available from several vendors on eBay.  I was able to find it without too much effort, but ya gotta be careful.  For instance, an outfit called “lytleracinggroup” offers the Parts Unlimited kit for $47.94, but they want $100 bucks for “economy shipping”.  I’d hate to see what they want for expedited shipping.
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Re: Stock Carb Rebuild Kits
Reply #29 - 01/02/22 at 17:23:02
 
One potential source looks like “powersportusa”.  They offer the Parts Unlimited Carburetor Repair Kit 1003-1386 for $41.95.  Economy shipping is $3.95.  Not bad.  If you ordered the same parts from the OEM, it would set you back about $140.  Question is, how good are these kits?  The picture indicates the parts are correct, but the proof is in the pudding.
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