SuzukiSavage.com - I guess E nailed it

Serowbot

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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: I guess E nailed it
Reply #15 - 12/13/21 at 07:22:53

Quote:

"One of the most striking characteristics of shoplifting as a crime is how prevalent it is: over 200 million individual cases annually. That’s a staggering 550,000 incidents every day or roughly 23,000 every hour.

The second is the sheer number of offenders: 27 million shoplifters in the US at present: or 10% of the total US population, affecting 1 in 11 persons. It is indeed, a crime of epidemic proportions."

That's gonna' take a lot of bullets... Huh

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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh

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Eegore Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 8391	Re: I guess E nailed it Reply #16 - 12/13/21 at 14:16:46 I think lowering the prosecution dollar amount would help, but you need Prosecutors, Judges and Courtrooms and places to put criminals which at this point there aren't enough.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: I guess E nailed it Reply #17 - 12/14/21 at 04:33:44 Ahh,the false equivalency pretenses.. You KNOW Shoplifting is NOT what I am talking about. Shoplifting doesn't come with a gang of people rushing into the jewelry store Smashing the displays with a crowbar. The lame ass strawman crap is so old. STOPPITT
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Eegore

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Re: I guess E nailed it
Reply #18 - 12/14/21 at 05:40:40

"You KNOW
Shoplifting is NOT what I am talking about."

Yes I KNOW that. But you won't acknowledge that protecting "property" INCLUDES shoplifting. If deadly force is legalized to "protect property" then shoplifting is included unless there are other parameters. I proposed changes, that you ignored,

"Shoplifting doesn't come with a gang of people rushing into the jewelry store
Smashing the displays with a crowbar."

Yeah. But shoplifting and crowbar smashing gangs stealing are all taking "property". So when we propose it should be legal to kill people over "property" then we need to propose parameters that separates shoplifting from armed multiple person theft.

And then we go back to what helps Bob Store Owner first:

Decades of law debate legalizing killing people during multi-person armed theft.

Store policy changes.

If Bob Store Owner shoots people to "protect property" today - Bob Store Owner goes to prison. That's not Strawman, that's fact. Bottom line is Bob Store Owner should be able to fight back, but legalizing deadly force will take many years.

What can help him today?

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MnSpring

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Re: I guess E nailed it
Reply #19 - 12/14/21 at 08:47:21

Eegore wrote on 12/14/21 at 05:40:40:

" ... If Bob Store Owner ... .
.. What can help him today?

Clearly it is,
Cages/mantraps to enter the store.
Bars on windows and doors small enough to not allow a human through.
Limit on how many in a store at one time.
Merchandise locked up, and only available for one person, to look at one thing, supervised by one employee.

Because it is clearly, NOT,
Stopping or /Punishing the Thief’s.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28699 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: I guess E nailed it Reply #20 - 12/14/21 at 09:16:43 There are countries where the law allows severe vigilante justice, of the kind some of you suggest. They are not places you would want to live. Think about it.
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Eegore

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Re: I guess E nailed it
Reply #21 - 12/14/21 at 09:36:29

Because it is clearly, NOT,
Stopping or /Punishing the Thief’s.

That is part of it, but do you think legalizing deadly force for property theft will happen anytime soon?

Do you think if a Wal-Mart employee opened up semi-automatic fire into a group of potential thieves tomorrow as they rushed in the door, that maybe the employee would end up in jail?

On average do you feel Wal-Mart would gain or lose customers if 20+ thieves were shot dead by means of company policy in a store?

It would definitely deter theft. I am not arguing that. I am just saying the outcome will most likely be prison time for the shooter.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: I guess E nailed it Reply #22 - 12/14/21 at 12:02:43 Do you think if a Wal-Mart employee opened up semi-automatic fire into a group of potential thieves tomorrow as they rushed in the door, that maybe the employee would end up in jail? STOPPITT. Read what I said.
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Eegore

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Re: I guess E nailed it
Reply #23 - 12/14/21 at 13:24:17

"STOPPITT.
Read what I said."

My understanding is you believe using deadly force to protect property should be legal.

"Watching a gang rip off a store, like a bank robbery, yeah, law needs changed to
Shoot them."

Sure, but can Bob Store owner actually do that because we think it "should be legal"? Is that how he resolves his problem tomorrow?

You are isolating property protection to specific events and locations like jewelry stores and use of blunt objects - but your argument also includes potential for human harm which mitigates any property protection application.

At that point you aren't protecting "property" you are protecting humans.

If we legalize deadly force to protect property, how do we define the specifics? I suggested some that were ignored. If we just allow "property" to be protected by deadly force then any object I own I can kill over.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: I guess E nailed it Reply #24 - 12/14/21 at 19:47:19 You're not reasonable. I'm done explaining. If you wanted to understand what I am saying, you would have.
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Eegore Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 8391	Re: I guess E nailed it Reply #25 - 12/14/21 at 21:04:16 I don't think it's reasonable to expect anyone to lobby for years and years to allow use of deadly force to protect property. There are too many variables to allow everyone the ability to kill others to save their "livelihood" or to protect "civilized society" without opening the door for criminals to use it too.
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