SuzukiSavage.com - Killing of Ahmaud Arbery

Eegore

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Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery
Reply #30 - 11/28/21 at 14:20:30

"I think we as a society have to do something. So I think if I was in the situation I would point to all the men I could see and mount some type of defense."

Over laundry soap?

No way I'd put my safety on the line for somebody else's soap. I would however offer to show them the newer methods for theft prevention like internal exit gates, facial recognition cameras, parking lot barriers etc.

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13170 Gender:	Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery Reply #31 - 11/28/21 at 17:23:20 You’re not doing it for soap. You’re doing it for civilized society.
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Eegore

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Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery
Reply #32 - 11/28/21 at 19:48:02

"You’re not doing it for soap. You’re doing it for civilized society."

Yeah I see your point. I've been in to many shoot/stab first situations to assume it won't happen. At the end of the day my judicial defense can't be I was doing it for civilized society, and I don't care to have that on my obituary.

This is the stuff we study and develop training programs for, so I think my personal risk assessment could be skewed towards the violent outcomes of civil interference.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/teen-worker-brooklyn-bodega-shot-142900216.html

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« Last Edit: 11/29/21 at 01:37:13 by Eegore »

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery
Reply #33 - 11/29/21 at 05:31:54

I just hate seeing both sides. Sometimes doing what sure sounds like
The Right Thing just might not be wise.
Assessing the situation and making a decision to act could get a guy shot.
If someone is legally carrying,, what then? IDK the law on using a weapon to stop a property crime.
What happens when a dozen valedictorians descend like locusts on a store and smash displays and grab the stuff and cram it in the backpack they brought?
To me, shooting them down is the right answer.
If it's not legal
It needs to be.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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Eegore

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Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery
Reply #34 - 11/29/21 at 06:30:49

"If someone is legally carrying,, what then? IDK the law on using a weapon to stop a property crime."

Depends on your State. In CO one can only use deadly force to protect against arson. Otherwise you can not use deadly force to protect property.

My understanding is that in TX you can not use deadly force to protect property. You must be justified under Texas Penal Code section 9.41 to use "Force" but not "Deadly Force" to stop a trespasser or an interference with your property.

"To me, shooting them down is the right answer.
If it's not legal
It needs to be."

It is definitely not legal.

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MnSpring

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Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery
Reply #35 - 11/29/21 at 08:21:58

Eegore wrote on 11/28/21 at 19:48:02:

" ... the violent outcomes of civil interference.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/teen-worker-brooklyn-bodega-shot-142900216.html

And that is happening,
Because,
The Ultra Liberal, Progressive, Fairy Dust Sprinkling DFI Socialists,
have, Allowed and ENCOURAGED, it to happen.
by NOT holding people responsible for their actions.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery
Reply #36 - 11/29/21 at 09:04:58

Eegore wrote on 11/29/21 at 06:30:49:

"If someone is legally carrying,, what then? IDK the law on using a weapon to stop a property crime."

Depends on your State. In CO one can only use deadly force to protect against arson. Otherwise you can not use deadly force to protect property.

My understanding is that in TX you can not use deadly force to protect property. You must be justified under Texas Penal Code section 9.41 to use "Force" but not "Deadly Force" to stop a trespasser or an interference with your property.

"To me, shooting them down is the right answer.
If it's not legal
It needs to be."

It is definitely not legal.

Watching a gang rip off a store, like a bank robbery, yeah, law needs changed to
Shoot them.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13170 Gender:	Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery Reply #37 - 11/29/21 at 10:20:56 Sounds strange but it may be true to say in a more civilized time civilians would shoot them heading out the door before they got on their horses and got away with the loot.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery Reply #38 - 11/29/21 at 10:44:18 Ayupp!
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Eegore Serious Thumper Online SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 8393	Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery Reply #39 - 11/29/21 at 11:31:04 As long as we are ok with other random people around being judge jury and executioner this would work out fine. Just make sure you aren't walking out of a store to get away from the chaos when a mob shoplifts so you don't get killed.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery Reply #40 - 11/29/21 at 12:47:01 Yeah, the people Without the crowbar and bag are the target. You seem to be unaware of the innocent bystanders shot by cops.
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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13170 Gender:	Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery Reply #41 - 11/29/21 at 13:42:40 Not that hard to figure out who’s who. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50qXWSfozFI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6preTw28GWE
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Eegore

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Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery
Reply #42 - 11/29/21 at 15:16:53

My point is that we have a structure of law and if we allow for everyone to be judge jury and executioner this is going to get messy fast.

While it may be easy for you to define criminal from non-criminal during an active crime, everyone is an expert when watching a YouTube video. Just like everyone can beat Mike Tyson when they don't put gloves on and put in the personal risk.

My concerns are

1: Idiots that look for any theft so they can kill someone.

2: The general increase in murders as anyone can claim they witnessed a theft to kill. Get into an argument, kill them, toss a pencil by their body so you can say you were protecting your personal property.

3: The general reduction of Due Process of law by giving people the ability to kill based off of the location of inanimate objects. No more trial by peers if perceived theft is involved.

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MnSpring

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Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery
Reply #43 - 11/29/21 at 15:56:03

WebsterMark wrote on 11/29/21 at 10:20:56:

Sounds strange but it may be true to say in a more civilized time civilians would shoot them heading out the door before they got on their horses and got away with the loot.

150 years ago, (+/-)
In one town/area/district, West of the Mississippi.
Someone that was caught stealing Horses, then convicted, was Hung, with everybody looking on.

In another town/area/district, West of the Mississippi.
Someone that was caught stealing Horses, then convicted,
was slapped on the wrist, or did a little stint in Jail,
and told; "Do Not Do That Again".

Which town had more people,
STEALING Horses ?,

Today, the Ultra Liberal, Progressive, Fairy Dust Sprinklers,
have, HIDDEN, the punishment.
School Teachers have Taught, that a person has NO responsibility for their actions.
Civic, 'leaders', shout and yell that it is, 'Racist', and no harm should come to the criminal.
Certain color skin/religion/heartridge persons, are TAUGHT, they can say and do almost anything they want, with total impunity.

And UL, DFI, FDS, Socialists, Wonder Why,
their is much more crime ???????

And a number of them say;
"You Must
Give up,
freedom,
to be safer"

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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MnSpring Serious Thumper Offline Younger than most people my age. Posts: 9384 Minn Gender:	Re: Killing of Ahmaud Arbery Reply #44 - 11/29/21 at 16:01:16 WebsterMark wrote on 11/29/21 at 13:42:40: *Not that hard to figure out who’s who.* Watched the first one. *Golly Gee Wally,* they all walked/ran, right by, the table full of computers ????? Why ??????
Back to top	Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither". Which is *More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly* . IP Logged