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How much blame should Baldwin shoulder. (Read 440 times)
Eegore
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #30 - 10/28/21 at 08:20:47
 
"So what I do not understand and probably neither does anyone else, is how the fcuk could it be possible for Guttierez to load a gun with live rounds. Clearly it isn't possible, there must have been someone else involved who handled the gun other than the assistant director."

 My understanding is the crew used those guns for practice/recreational shooting that morning.  It's obvious now why that should never happen.  I can not confirm this.

 I know from experience people can mix sim rounds and blanks while loading their own weapon and not notice.  
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« Last Edit: 10/29/21 at 07:08:10 by Eegore »  
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #31 - 10/29/21 at 04:52:39
 
One of my favorite television shows is air disasters where they go back and analyze the causes of an aircraft going down and in virtually every instance it’s a series of mistakes and the accumulation effect of those and not a single event is what brings it down.

I suppose that’s what we’re going to find out here. A series of mistakes and safety shortcuts is likely the culprit. If anyone of those events occurred differently, the shooting would not have occurred.
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #32 - 10/29/21 at 07:10:01
 

 I agree.  In most cases this is what happens from my experience.  I will not provide evidence for this.

 It is rarely, in my experience and research, an assassination.
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #33 - 10/29/21 at 10:06:51
 
From what was said at the news conferences, the AD took the gun off of a table, one of several guns.
And that each person receiving the gun should confirm the gun is cold by firing it into the ground up to 6 times.
Every person from the armorer to the actor are responsible.
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #34 - 10/29/21 at 10:52:16
 
I think if Baldwin has any liability at all, it will be as a producer, if he was involved in hiring that armorer.
Some producers are only involved in financing,... others run the show, and do hiring, manage budgets, etc...
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #35 - 10/29/21 at 11:50:10
 
 I can't imagine the person pulling the trigger isn't liable at all but maybe if someone came forward and said they assured Baldwin that weapons were "safe" and he didn't have to check them, and somehow prohibited him from doing so.

 I imagine if I were to shoot a gun at a gun range that a Range Master and overall weapons expert said was unloaded, and I killed someone, I would be liable.  I had every opportunity to verify.

 If someone is at a Halloween party and a retired US Army Armory Sergeant hands them a prop gun and they shoot at somebody, and it kills them, they might be liable.  They had every opportunity to verify.

 If an actor is handed a gun and told it is unloaded by an on-set armorer and he shoots that gun, then kills someone, I would think he would be liable.  He had every opportunity to verify.

 Obviously this was an accident, but there doesn't seem to be any reason to think Baldwin was prohibited from checking a gun he was using.
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #36 - 10/29/21 at 14:03:31
 
Golly Gee Wally,
how come a Gun Hating, Freedom Hating Socialist,
is working his azz off SPINNING the truth that he, is responsible for HIS ACTIONS.
And it is someone else’s fault, that HE KILLED Someone?

John Wane, used S/A firearms in Westerns.
Roy Rogers, used S/A firearms in Westerns.
Gunsmoke, used S/A firearms in Westerns.
Paladin, used S/A firearms in Westerns.
Maverick, used S/A firearms in Westerns.
Bonanza, used S/A firearms in Westerns.
Wagon Train, used S/A firearms in Westerns.
The Loan Ranger, used S/A firearms in Westerns.
And ON, and ON, and on, and on

All those people handling Firearms,
who were knowledgeable about firearms,
and were NOT, DFI, FDS, Gun Hating Socialists.
How many, ‘accidents’, did those people have ?
How many YEARS did they work ?

Golly Gee Wally,
Why is it that a Gun Hating, DFI, FDS’ing Socialist,
is SPINNING his, RESPONSIBILITY, as someone else’s fault.

And all those other people,
had no ‘KILLING’ when handling firearms,
probably Hundreds of Thousand of times more.

But the DFI, FDS, Gun Haters, need not worry.
Just as Hanoi Jane,
committed TREASON,
Nothing was ever done.

The gun hating Socialist Baldwin.
Will get a pass.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #37 - 10/29/21 at 14:17:31
 
Eegore wrote on 10/29/21 at 11:50:10:
 " ...    but there doesn't seem to be any reason to think Baldwin was prohibited from checking a gun he was using.


This was said:

Serowbot wrote on 10/24/21 at 09:06:59:
" ... if Baldwin had then opened the chamber and removed the ammo to check it and reloaded it , it would be against safety protocol.  An actor, no matter personal experience, is not legally qualified to certify a weapon safe. ..."


Or was that just a example of releasing the fermentation formed by Broccoli  in the human body ?



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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #38 - 10/29/21 at 14:35:46
 
Now Guttierez' lawyers release this statement...

"Safety is Hannah's number one priority on
set. Ultimately this set would never have
been compromised if live ammo were not
introduced. Hannah has no idea where the
live rounds came from...


This appears to be subtly implying that Guttierez may have loaded a single live round but it would not have been her fault because there should never have been any live rounds anywhere near her. Which is a pretty poor excuse from the head armourer.

It looks like that Baldwin is negligent in hiring incompetents, among other things, the people who had the live rounds on set will get some charges but it's difficult to see how the head armourer can get away with anything other than negligent manslaughter . But then Balwin hired her and allowed unsafe and probably illegal practices. So both of them will be charge.

However there is the celebrity aspect, like the way Bruce Jenner, (as he was then) clearly killed a woman with his dangerous and negligent driving. If it were not for footage of the incident filmed from the rear view camera of a passing bus, no one would have known that Jenner way lying. Caitlyn Jenner as she now was shortly after the accident was not even charged for any of the many crimes that are recorded on film.

So Guttierez may get away with this due to her guilt being like to Baldwin.

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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #39 - 10/29/21 at 14:43:18
 

"Why is it that a Gun Hating, DFI, FDS’ing Socialist,
is SPINNING his, RESPONSIBILITY, as someone else’s fault
."

 He isn't.  Other people are.


 
"This appears to be subtly implying that Guttierez may have loaded a single live round but it would not have been her fault because there should never have been any live rounds anywhere near her. Which is a pretty poor excuse from the head armourer."

 Agreed.  I have witnessed people load sim rounds into weapons and not realize it multiple times.  And these are a different color, some even having a different shape.   This does not excuse the behavior, but it happens.
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #40 - 10/29/21 at 15:28:02
 
Not sure why the film industry doesn't just use guns that only fire blanks.

Apart from that it is ironic that Guttierez is trying to blame the producers and whinging about how she couldn't do her job properly, because to actually be a genuine head armourer and take on the full responsibility means that it is necessary to be an utter and complete badass and somehow Guttierez just doesn't fit that profile. So again I guess that is on the producers for hiring her. Or what about the organisation who represents and licenses or certifies armourers, as she is clearly incompetent.




Not very badass!
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #41 - 10/29/21 at 16:34:14
 

"Not sure why the film industry doesn't just use guns that only fire blanks."


 Typically this is the case.  But if one wanted footage of an actual bullet hitting a target then live ammo obviously would be used.  

 Mixing ammunition types is bad practice, this production seems to be an exception to industry standard practices.
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #42 - 10/30/21 at 08:07:10
 
There was also mentioned that this might be a diversity hire due requirements needed for Oscar nomination.
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #43 - 10/30/21 at 08:53:31
 
Best armorer,.. right up there with best food truck Oscar... Grin
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #44 - 10/30/21 at 14:45:05
 
There was also mentioned that this might...

Priceless.
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