SuzukiSavage.com - How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.

WebsterMark Serious Thumper Online SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13170 Gender:	Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder. Reply #15 - 10/26/21 at 05:21:44 All we know with certainty right now is Alec Baldwin is a hero to the left wing media and entertainment culture so someone else will certainly take the fall. Let you imaginations wander if Tucker Carlson had killed someone shooting a firearms commercial…. That much we know.
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Eegore

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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #16 - 10/26/21 at 07:27:39

I agree that the public response will differ depending on who shoots a gun.

The thing about criminal charges is there needs to be a degree of intent, or complete negligence. Lack of knowledge on Baldwin's part is not equal to intending damage, and may not even be considered complete negligence if a prop-master was assigned the safety procedures.

Civil lawsuits I can see being successful, but criminal may be tricky due to the lack of intent.

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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #17 - 10/26/21 at 07:43:08

Eegore wrote on 10/26/21 at 07:27:39:

" ... but criminal may be tricky due to the lack of intent.

Because Baldwin IS,
a UL, FDS, Arrogant Darling of Socialists.
The part of the LAW,
(...negligence or recklessness...)
will be totally Ignored.

Gonna get the 'T' shirt that says:

'Guns don't kill people
Baldwin Does'

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28701 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder. Reply #18 - 10/26/21 at 08:34:09 MnSpring wrote on 10/26/21 at 07:43:08: Gonna get the 'T' shirt that says: 'Guns don't kill people Baldwin Does' Sure... Billionaire son hawking cheap T-shirts making fun of tragedy. Knock yerself out PS... answer my question
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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Online SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13170 Gender:	Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder. Reply #19 - 10/26/21 at 09:22:18 Gonna get the 'T' shirt that says: 'Guns don't kill people Baldwin Does' Might sell well.
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #20 - 10/26/21 at 11:00:52

Serowbot wrote on 10/26/21 at 08:34:09:

" ... PS... answer my question

“…you are the armorer on a movie set…”
You mean that one ?

Just as a person who has declared a Airplane/Car/Boat/Carnival Ride/etc,
’safe’ to operate.
That person has absolutely NO control over what gas/oil/etc, someone else puts in.
Or how that thing is used.

A armorer on a movie set,
is the first line of, checking.
Baldwin was the last !!!!!!

“…Are you sure he can tell the difference between a blank and a wadcutter?…”

That would be his,
REQUIREMENT,
if the role required the use of a firearm.

Just as a actors, REQUIREMENT,
would be to know about anything else,
that actor used, in the job of acting.

Baldwin is at fault, Criminally and Civic.
Others are also, at fault.
Yet Baldwin is the last person in line.
Baldwin IS Responsible.
Yet the UL, FDS, Socialists will not let him be charged.

The same way several years ago,
a American Actor,
PROVED her,
‘Anti American’ politics.
and Nothing happened !!!!!!!

Serowbot wrote on 10/26/21 at 08:34:09:

" ... PS... answer my question

OBTW

Sell that NASTY, 'Gun', you say you have yet ?
After all their is NO REASON you NEED it !!!!!

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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Eegore

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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #21 - 10/26/21 at 13:59:08

An associate that has worked with firearms in film responded to my inquiry and indicated that live rounds were present on the Rust set, some loose/unaccounted for, which is obviously a huge procedural violation. Also weapons had been left out of an armorer's care. I have not confirmed this.

His assessment is that guns that fire blanks should always be used only for that purpose. He will not mix live ammunition guns with prop or blank-firing guns and has gotten in disputes with Directors/Producers regarding this to which he said he has always maintained his policy.

If an Actor was aware live-ammo could be present on set I would say there is more culpability than an Actor that is under the impression only blank-ammo is used in the filming. Again movies are different than range-related firearms rules so there are exceptions.

If I were filming Saving Private Ryan I am not sure I'd be willing to have every extra go through firearms training. I'd definitely not be ok with camera shots where they are never shown shooting at someone. Maybe it would all have to be digital and actors would just use guns that have no firing pins and all the mechanical functions would have to be CGI. I can't imagine in a film like that people could follow firearm safety rules and still get the same cinematic realism.

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WebsterMark

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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #22 - 10/26/21 at 15:40:50

Twitter post from Kristi Alley
No AD yells “COLD GUN” The armourer or prop person is supposed to PERSONALLY show you the gun so you can see it is empty for yourself. Then I dry fire it into the ground. I have NEVER been handed a gun by an AD & I’ve been handed 100 guns & I’ve never heard “COLD gun” in 40 years

Actor Carl Marino
I used a a handgun every day on the set of my show for 9 years. No one ever used those terms. The actors always checked their weapons themselves no matter what anyone on set told them.

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Online SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13170 Gender:	Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder. Reply #23 - 10/26/21 at 15:49:22 I know two WWII re-enactors. They’ve been to Normandy France and dozens of other places where they do battle scenes using actual weapons with blanks. Each group has the responsibility to ensure blanks are used. The even have automatic weapons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfav7BCffMY
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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #24 - 10/26/21 at 18:48:35

My guess, based on what has come out publicly so far.

Three criminal indictments.

Baldwin - involuntary manslaughter.

The Armorer girl - criminally negligent homicide.

The director that handed Baldwin the gun - criminally negligent homicide.

Baldwin will not go to jail. He'll plead guilty to a misdemeanor and pay a fine. Possibly some sort of conditional discharge.

The other two might well spend some time behind bars if they are convicted, or even if they take a plea.

Baldwin may somehow salvage his career but that's not necessarily a given. Hollywood will eventually forgive a lot if someone is a big enough star. But he will have to survive the civil suits for that to even be a possibility. And Baldwin isn't the only one that's going to be sued. If the revolver turns out to be an original peacemaker some shyster will want to dig up Sam Colt and sue him for making the gun. If it's a replica, then whoever manufactured it is going to get sued. A lot of personal injury lawyers are walking around with hard-ons looking at brochures for yachts and private jets right now.

The other two are just cannon fodder. They'll never work in that industry again at least.

Idiots and guns are a bad combination, The level of idiocy in this affair is truly epic IMO.

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eau de sauvage

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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #25 - 10/27/21 at 00:06:38

Turns out that Guttierez, the armourer, just outed herself in a podcast. This is her first movie at the main armourer, and her dad helped her figure out how blanks work, check out this largely inchohent rambling from her...

"I think loading blanks is, like, the scariest thing to me because I was
like.'oh, I don't know anything about it,' but, you know, he taught me
that, and eventually by the time I was, like, trying to figure out how to
make a specific blank go when you want it to rather than it hitting, like,
the empty cylinders and everything - I figured that out on my own."

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Serowbot

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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #26 - 10/27/21 at 11:19:54

WebsterMark wrote on 10/26/21 at 15:49:22:

I know two WWII re-enactors. They’ve been to Normandy France and dozens of other places where they do battle scenes using actual weapons with blanks. Each group has the responsibility to ensure blanks are used. The even have automatic weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfav7BCffMY

Geez, that guy is uncoordinated... Huh

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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh

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Eegore Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 8393	Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder. Reply #27 - 10/27/21 at 19:30:43 Mosins and blanks don't play well.
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eau de sauvage

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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #28 - 10/28/21 at 00:24:01

You could show someone who knew nothing at all about guns a bullet on a cartridge side by side with a blank cartridge that clearly has no bullet. This would take all of one minute.

So what I do not understand and probably neither does anyone else, is how the fcuk could it be possible for Guttierez to load a gun with live rounds. Clearly it isn't possible, there must have been someone else involved who handled the gun other than the assistant director.

UPDATE: According to court papers, the film’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, prepared a table on which three guns sat; an assistant director on the film, Dave Halls, grabbed a revolver and declared it to be a “cold gun,” meaning that it had no live ammunition inside and was safe to handle. Then, Mr. Halls handed the gun to Mr. Baldwin, a detective wrote in an affidavit used to obtain a search warrant.

Halls said he did not check the gun.

How about someone left a loaded gun lying around on a table then Guttierez after preparing one or two guns with blanks saw a gun on a table and put her two down there.

Maybe this is a murder!

UPDATE: There was only one live round in the gun, with blanks in the other chambers.

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« Last Edit: 10/28/21 at 02:37:23 by eau de sauvage »

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MnSpring

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Re: How much blame should Baldwin shoulder.
Reply #29 - 10/28/21 at 07:45:03

eau de sauvage wrote on 10/28/21 at 00:24:01:

" ...who knew nothing at all about guns ..."
"... there must have been someone else involved who handled the gun other than the assistant director ..."
" ... Halls said he did not check the gun ..."
"... someone left a loaded gun lying around on a table then ..."

And the excuses of why Baldwin is NOT at fault, abound !
After-all, the Ultra Liberal, Darling of the Socialists,
needs a whole bunch of CYA'ing.
And in the end, he will 'absolved',
by decree of the Fairy Dust Sprinklers.

"...Maybe this is a murder! ..."

That is a absolute KNOWN.

But as Gilda always said !

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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