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Rear Shocks (Read 535 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #15 - 10/08/21 at 17:44:25
 
File a point on the end of the rod.  Make a punch mark in a flat on the axle nut.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #16 - 10/08/21 at 17:44:54
 
The point on the rod goes into the punch mark.  Like this.
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Sag_Rig_Rod_on_Nut.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #17 - 10/08/21 at 17:45:26
 
The old hard drive magnet needs a 13/64” hole for the rod.  Chamfer the edges of the hole so the rod won’t bind.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #18 - 10/08/21 at 17:46:14
 
The magnet goes on the fender rail.  Adjust it so its directly above the rear axle nut.  These magnets are mighty strong, be careful with the paint & chrome.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #19 - 10/08/21 at 17:48:38
 
Attach the spring to the rod and the magnet.  The spring keeps the rod in intimate contact with the axle nut as you stroke the rear suspension.  You attach a zip tie around the rod and adjust it so that it just touches the underside of the magnet when the rear suspension is fully extended for baseline check (i.e. hanging).
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #20 - 10/08/21 at 17:49:11
 
Then you can lower the bike and check free sag and race sag.  For instance, set the bike back down and then raise it back up until the wheel is hanging.  You can get a sag measurement.  Probably not the best since you can’t bounce it around and let it settle, but I suspect it will be adequate.  Maybe just do the measurement three or four times and average the readings.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #21 - 10/08/21 at 17:49:41
 
The bike has to be held upright for the sag measurements.  I use this simple wooden stand.  The straps going above the turn signals are loose so as to not compress the forks at all.  They are just there as a safety precaution, so I don’t dump the thing on it’s side.  The straps going to the area around the fender mounts are actually holding the bike upright.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #22 - 10/08/21 at 17:50:19
 
Use a scissors jack to raise and lower the rear end.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #23 - 10/08/21 at 17:51:28
 
I must admit I have never paid much attention to suspension.  This is a steep learning curve for me.  I have no way to quantify how good or bad the shocks & forks are working.  What I do know is that my Burgman rides much smoother than the Savage, and the Savage rear end is an absolute pile-driver.  Our roads are lousy and sometimes I hit what appear to be relatively small irregularities and it feels like my spine is being driven through my heart.  It’s real bad.  I’m such a suspension stone that I don’t know if the rear end is bottoming out or just too stiff.  I’ve been riding it for over three years, why haven’t I addressed the issue?  I took a quick look and figured out I had the preload on the softest setting.  OK, that’s a start.

I figured let’s see if it’s bottoming out.  I slathered up the shock shaft with a sloppy coat of black grease.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #24 - 10/08/21 at 17:52:04
 
I went for a nice ride.  Yep, it’s terrible.  That grease didn’t help one bit.  Just kidding.  It rode rough and the pile-driver effect was in full swing.  It doesn’t take much of a bump to crush my vertebrae.  Got home and took a quick look.  Pretty much looked like it was using up all of the shock travel and I didn’t even drive directly into any potholes.  The last 1/8” or so had grease but seemed like that was just the pile that got pushed up onto the rubber bumper.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #25 - 10/08/21 at 17:53:00
 
Jacked up the preload to max and gave the shaft another coat of grease.  Then took it out for another lap around the secret suspension test track.  It was different, but I wouldn’t necessarily say better.  First off, it seemed to steer a little lighter.  It was also real bouncy now.  Seemed like all the little stuff was getting through (like every cigarette butt).  The larger irregularities might have been a little better.  Hard to tell for sure but I think the pile-driver effect has been diminished slightly.  So now it’s more like riding a jack-hammer, constantly rattling and dribbling along, with an occasional pile driver thrown in at say 80% of the prior intensity.  A quick check of the grease mark showed it was no longer using up all of the available travel.   A good thing???  Looks like the 3rd or 4th preload setting would be best for these stock boingers.
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #26 - 10/08/21 at 17:54:43
 
So, that’s where I’m at.  I am leaning toward 11.5” shocks.  Probably Progressive 412s with 90/130 springs.  Gary suggests the 90/130 springs and Progressive also got back to me with the same recommendation.

Do I have the setup drill correct?  Baseline, set preload using race sag, check free sag to verify spring rate.

Is the method I am using to assess rear shock action OK?   Is doing the check with grease worth anything?  I am leaning toward the longest shocks I can install without gross changes to belt tension, steering, kickstand, or appearance.  I’m assuming the 11.5” shocks will provide more travel.  All other considerations aside, will the additional travel mitigate the pile-drive effect?

Anyone have any comments on length?  Hiko, did you experience any interference issues with your 11.5” shocks?  How about the kickstand?  Does it work OK with the 11.5” shocks?

I appreciate the help.

Best regards, Mike
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #27 - 10/08/21 at 18:54:32
 
I think the issue with 11.5" is the belt rubs on the bolt on the case under the sprocket cover.

I don't think there's an issue with the kickstand.
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #28 - 10/09/21 at 06:41:17
 
DMB  

The Hagon site looks like it's under construction, but they have a spreadsheet for shock fitment and I thought fork springs too.  I think they were 11" shocks.  I'm sure Dime City or any British Bike shop can get the info.  I think the shocks were a little over $200 and you could black or chrome springs.

EDIT:  

Check the page below.  There is a link to an spreadsheet there.  Line 1142 shows the LS650 and lists part numbers 28001 and 28001SA for shocks.  I think they are 280mm or just over 11".  

I don't see any fork springs on the list but I'm pretty sure they have them.

http://www.britcycle.com/Products/Hagon/Hagon_Special_Order.htm

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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Rear Shocks
Reply #29 - 10/09/21 at 09:02:09
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 10/08/21 at 17:40:29:
Gary, exceedingly good posts on the suspension.  My compliments.  I have some questions for you.

You set the free sag on the forks at 10mm, which is 8% of the 127mm travel.  Is it OK to also set the free sag on the rear shocks to 8% of the travel?  For instance, the stock rear wheel travel is exactly 2.69”.  That would work out to  free sag = .215” (5.5mm), very close to your estimate.  Once I replace the rear shocks the wheel travel should increase so I want to know if 8% is a good target.

I’m baffled on the free sag guidance, if less than recommended you need heavier spring, if more than recommended you need a lighter spring.  That seems counterintuitive.  I saw similar guidance on an Aussie website.  I’m missing something.  Can you elaborate?

Please tell me if I have the procedure correct.  Step 1, determine baseline.  Step 2, establish and set correct race sag for given travel.  Step 3, check free sag to verify proper spring rate.


Dave,

You were heading in the wrong direction...but then you saved yourself. You don't set static sag - you set race sag. Static sag is the result of the race sag and it tells us about the spring rate. If after setting the race sag you have too much static sag, that is a sign that the spring rate is too high. Why is this? Simple, you didn't need much (or any) preload to achieve your race sag figure. Conversely, if you have too little static sag, it means that you had to crank in a whole lot of preload to get the right height, and now the shock is jacked up - and there isn't enough spring travel left.

Dave, if you are going to take the time and spend the money here - do it right and do it once. It will be worth the effort. A good shock is one that is rebuildable. This way if a seal fails, you don't throw away the assembly, you replace the part. Also, if the shock is rebuildable, that means you can rebuild it to a specification that you choose. For example, if you don't like the rebound compression, you can change the shim stack (flexible washers). Being rebuildable means that you can choose the oil viscosity, the amount of oil, and the amount and pressure of N2. These are all thing that effect the operation of the shock - and your comfort.

A good shock will have a preload collar, not 5 clicks. What happens if you are between clicks?

My bike is comfortable. Period - no disclaimers on that. Well one...I have more travel which gives me more options to achieve comfort. But there are plenty of comfortable Harleys out there and they too have limited travel. It's not about how much travel you have, but what happens between the end points. The spring has to adequately support the bike and rider in the right location/zone, and the damping has to control the speed of the motion. If you are chasing spring rate for comfort, you are doing it wrong. If the sag figures are correct - then its not the spring - its the damping. That's why in a quality shock you have control of the damping.

If you put Intruder shocks on your bike, you are replacing crap with different crap.
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