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Religious exemption? (Read 154 times)
Eegore
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Religious exemption?
09/30/21 at 13:27:25
 
 My understanding of the 1st Amendment is to create a legal equality between various religions, and non-religious.

 It seems to me the argument can be made that if the US Government requires Government employees and only Government employees with the exemption of all other known humans, to be vaccinated specific to Covid-19 - but allows for religious exemption - they are favoring religious employees over non-religious ones.

 Complete religious freedom does not exist, for instance human sacrifice for religious reasons is not Constitutionally protected.  But prosecution for the belief, without actions, just belief would be wrong.  However actions or negligence that is harmful to others is not protected, even by the 1st Amendment.  

 So is a "religious exemption" technically favoring one over another by law?
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oldNslow
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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #1 - 09/30/21 at 15:50:54
 
Quote:
So is a "religious exemption" technically favoring one over another by law?


I think one could make that argument. But only specifically with respect to Amendment 1.

Quote:
...actions or negligence that is harmful to others is not protected, even by the 1st Amendment...


Refering to the Covid vaccine specifically however, I'm not convinced that an unvaccinated person is any more likely to cause harm to others than a vaccinated one. None of the vaccines seem to be very effective at actually preventing infection or transmission.  Otherwise the CDC, WHO,etc. wouldn't' still be insisting that folks still need to wear masks in many situations regardless of their vaccination status. If that is , or even might be, the case, an exemption on any grounds, religious or otherwise is justified, and forcing someone to get vaccinated (with these specific drugs}is not justified, regardless of any one particular individual's reason, religious or anythig else.

The "religious exemption" is a bit of a red herring IMO. Arguing about that with respect to the Covid shots completely misses the point,

Sort of like most of the legal decisions that use the 1st Amendment to allow or disallow some religious practice or other, misses or deliberately distorts the purpose of the amendment, which was to prohibit the establishment of a state sanctioned religion. Nothing else.







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Serowbot
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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #2 - 09/30/21 at 15:54:14
 
Where in the bible or any religious text does it say though shalt not get vaccinated?

They should have to prove they don't eat pork or shellfish, or wear blended fabrics.
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MnSpring
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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #3 - 09/30/21 at 17:36:07
 
Serowbot wrote on 09/30/21 at 15:54:14:
": ... They should have to prove they don't eat pork or shellfish, ...


Wait, if a religion says; (to the effect)
“ Don’t Eat Pork “

You want the people of that religion,
to PROVE they don’t eat Pork ?

Yet when asked;
“ Do You Believe,
that all people of your religion,
should KILL ,
anybody who is not of your religion “


It is a, ‘phobic…’ of some sort ??????

Cheese and Rice,
Just like the, Mush For Brains POTUS.
Flip/Flop, Flop/Flip.


OBTY, when ya gonna send that GUN,
You know,
the one you have absolutely,
NO NEED for !


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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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MnSpring
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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #4 - 09/30/21 at 17:44:05
 
Eegore wrote on 09/30/21 at 13:27:25:
 " ... if the US Government requires Government employees ...  ... to be vaccinated specific to Covid-19 - but allows for religious exemption - they are favoring religious employees over non-religious ones.  ..."


Lots of, ‘Exemptions’, when one jumps through all the hoops.
Masks/C-19 Vaccine/Other Vaccines/Jury Duty/Fasting/ paying Taxes, and on and on.

Quote:
 "... So is a "religious exemption" technically favoring one over another by law? ..."


Could be,
the standard for,
Religious reasons,
is already set.



Don’t know the numbers,
yet I believe,
( That is I, and only I, referring to just I)
that signifant numbers of people are on,
Social Security Disability,
who are NOT disabled !

Seems like the standard,
for that,
is also 'set'.


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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Eegore
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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #5 - 09/30/21 at 19:39:54
 
"Refering to the Covid vaccine specifically however, I'm not convinced that an unvaccinated person is any more likely to cause harm to others than a vaccinated one. None of the vaccines seem to be very effective at actually preventing infection or transmission."

 Yeah I agree that there isn't much evidence unvaccinated infect vaccinated at a higher rate etc.  If anything it just reduces potential for medical care overcrowding.

 This whole thing reminds me of my first job where the smokers went out 2 or 3 times an hour to smoke.  If I went out and stood around for 5 minutes 3 times an hour I'd be disciplined.  So if you smoke you can go outside whenever and get 2 official breaks + lunch.   But if you don't smoke you get 2 breaks and a lunch only.  I always though it was weird that you had to be a smoker to get extra personal time.  I'd just stand outside, with the smokers, hold an unlit cigarette and the shift supervisor got on me about it.  Weird.

 So now if you have a religion you don't have to be vaccinated, but if you are not religious you lack the justifications to opt-out.  Weird.
 
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Eegore
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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #6 - 09/30/21 at 19:47:22
 

"Lots of, ‘Exemptions’, when one jumps through all the hoops.
Masks/C-19 Vaccine/Other Vaccines/Jury Duty/Fasting/ paying Taxes, and on and on.
"

 Sure but they aren't covered in the 1st Amendment like religion is.  So having a jury duty exemption, to me, is not connected to the 1st Amendment.


"Could be,
the standard for,
Religious reasons,
is already set.
"

 Could be, but why apply it?  Why if one has a religion they can be exempt, but non-religion can not be?  I was just thinking that the 1st would not apply well to the US Government giving certain privilege's only to people of faith instead of applying it equally to all US citizens.


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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #7 - 10/01/21 at 04:35:11
 
Religious institutions are exempt from taxes in part because of the work they do in society as is the case with some other non-profits.

But in general, for most of this nation’s history, religion was an integral part of the lives for the vast majority of the population so yes, religious institutions were given, and I think, still deserve special deference in certain cases. I think we’ve correctly ruled the State has a duty to step in and protect minors for example from religious actions that are harmful.

But a vaccine against a disease that targets a narrow demographic doesn’t seem to fit the description of a dangerous religious action (refusal to get the vaccine) so if someone wants to claim an exemption from a vaccine mandate, sure, why not?
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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #8 - 10/01/21 at 09:10:56
 
Pretty sure you can opt for weekly testing.
Is there any religious exemption for being tested?
This makes religious exemption a moot point.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #9 - 10/02/21 at 06:18:47
 
Mandatory vaccination or testing for a disease that seriously impacts a very narrow demographic is about control, not medical care, not science.

If Ali, a boxer who hits to cause injury (and potentially could kill someone) in a pursuit for money, can win a consciousness objector case based on Islam, I would think anyone could claim religious exemption.

Looney Leftist think women aren’t the only ones who can have babies and 12 years can identify as the opposite sex so why can’t I claim religious exemption?

There is no legitimate argument the left can offer to a religious objection.
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Serowbot
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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #10 - 10/02/21 at 08:57:05
 
One of your more tangled posts, Web
I tried standing on my head to see if it got clearer, but no...

43 million cases, 700,000 dead is a small demographic?
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Eegore
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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #11 - 10/02/21 at 10:24:35
 

43 million cases, 700,000 dead is a small demographic?

 Well you have to remember that most of those are fake.  They died falling off canyon edges and were listed as C-19 etc.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #12 - 10/02/21 at 19:55:29
 
Serowbot wrote on 10/02/21 at 08:57:05:
One of your more tangled posts, Web
I tried standing on my head to see if it got clearer, but no...

43 million cases, 700,000 dead is a small demographic?


Yes, it’s a small demographic. You’re a liberal so facts, science or numbers don’t mean anything.

From CDC: Adults 65 and older account for 16% of the US population but 80% of COVID-19 deaths” . Now add in the number with two or more high risk factor and you have an even smaller demographic. Now, factor in some unknown number of deaths classified as Covid because they tested positive but the victim was like many others who showed no symptoms of Covid but died of the flu or RSV and the target demographic gets even smaller.

So yes, it’s a small demographic.
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MnSpring
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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #13 - 10/03/21 at 16:38:58
 
Quote:
Eegore wrote on 10/02/21 at 10:24:35:
" ... They died falling off canyon edges and were listed as C-19 etc.  

Another display of a emotion,
        called 'Humor' !
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Religious exemption?
Reply #14 - 10/04/21 at 12:47:51
 
What happened to informed consent?
What happened to basic, individual rights?
If Risk is part of the equation, choice should be, too.

You can't say there is no risk.
And that whole
Safe and Effective thing?
Nope..
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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