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Grey Lives Matter (Read 56 times)
WebsterMark
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Grey Lives Matter
09/16/21 at 05:01:56
 
From my girl Ann

My ancestors were Presbyterian abolitionists who fought on the Union side, but I get really ticked off when imbeciles take a sledgehammer to my country’s history.

Last week, with self-satisfied glee, savages tore down the 14-foot statue of Robert E. Lee designed by the French sculptor Antonin Mercie and installed in 1890 on land deeded to the state — in return for a promise that the Commonwealth of Virginia “will hold said Statue and pedestal and Circle of ground perpetually sacred to the Monumental purpose to which they have been devoted and that she will faithfully guard it and affectionately protect it.”

But Virginia’s supreme court ruled that the state had a “free speech” right to violate the deed. On that theory, no contract can ever be enforced. I have a free speech right to say that I will NOT deliver 20 pounds of bananas!

It’s not just “Southerners” who revere Lee, as his Wikipedia page implies. Franklin Delano Roosevelt called Lee “one of our greatest American Christians and one of our greatest American gentlemen.” Dwight Eisenhower said Lee was “noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history.” Even Ulysses S. Grant called him “the acknowledged ablest general in the Confederate army.”

The son — not grandson — of a hero of the American Revolution, Lee graduated second in his class at West Point, then distinguished himself in the Mexican-American War. Lee’s reputation was so great that President Lincoln asked him to take command of the Union forces against the South. But Lee was a Virginian and felt compelled to take Virginia’s side, so he resigned from the U.S. Army.

(For my illiterate readers and anyone who gets his news from MSNBC: That makes Lee the opposite of a “traitor.” A traitor is someone who pretends to be on your side, while secretly working with the enemy, not someone who loudly announces, I quit. My friends and I are leaving.)

Among his accomplishments, there’s also the minor fact that Lee saved the country. Immediately after a bitter, bloody civil war, pitting brother against brother — four of Mary Lincoln’s five brothers fought for the Confederacy — the landscape littered with the dead, Lee ensured that the South would accept defeat.

When Lee surrendered at Appomattox, he was at the height of his powers, idolized throughout the South. The president of the Confederacy, Jefferson Davis, wanted to fight on, telling his officers, “I think we can whip the enemy yet, if our people will turn out.”

But Lee, not Davis, held the hearts of his countrymen. When one of Lee’s own officers urged him to lead a guerilla war against the North, Lee remonstrated, “as a Christian people, there is now but one course to pursue. We must accept the situation; these men must go home and plant a crop, and we must proceed to build up our country on a new basis.”

He could easily have pulled a Trump and told his supporters, We got screwed! Take to the hills!  They would have followed. Hundreds of thousands more lives would have been lost. The country might never have recovered.

But Lee said no, it ends now.

In his biography of Grant, Ron Chernow says the Union general believed that “had Lee resisted surrender and encouraged his army to wage guerrilla warfare, it would have spawned infinite trouble. … Such was Lee’s unrivaled stature that his acceptance of defeat reconciled many diehard rebels to follow his example.”

Thanks to Lee, we became a functioning country again within about 15 years, instead of becoming Serbia, Afghanistan, Korea, Vietnam, Rwanda and on and on and on.

After Lee’s surrender, Union soldiers saluted their defeated foes. Erstwhile warring officers embraced one another. One Confederate officer said: “Great God, thought I to myself, how my heart swells out to such a magnanimous touch of humanity! Why do men fight who were born to be brothers?” When told of Lee’s surrender, Lincoln ordered the Union band to play “Dixie.” Years later, Grant spoke of his deep affection for Lee’s army, second only to that for his own men.

Never has a civil war ended with such love between the former enemies. That’s our history, our country, our war — North and South, black and white.

The vandalizing of American history has absolutely nothing to do with black people or slavery. Lots of historical figures had slaves. Not only American heroes like Washington and Jefferson, but Kamala Harris’ ancestors — according to her own father. Barack Obama is the only president who might be descended from slave traders, a particularly repellent group, inasmuch as Kenya was a major player in the slave trade.

How about these white saviors demand a box on their Ivy League admission forms: “If admitted to Harvard, would you be willing to give up your place to a black person?” That will NEVER happen. Instead, we get: I went out and courageously defaced a Confederate statue! Because some things are more important than my personal comfort.

No, the moving force behind this frenzied destruction of American history isn’t black people suddenly offended by monuments that have been around for a century; it’s pushy newcomers, bitter that their ancestors had nothing to do with the creation of this country. After other people’s ancestors carved a nation out of the wilderness, they just kind of showed up. Now they go around obliterating anything that reminds them that this country was up and running long before they got here.

America’s leading hate group, the Southern Poverty Law Center, titles its report on Confederate symbols “Whose Heritage? Public Symbols of the Confederacy.” Yes, exactly, it’s not their heritage, so it must be destroyed. My ancestors fought on the Union side, but they were involved, and it matters to me.

MSNBC’s smirking Chris Hayes can get weepy about some ancient Roman ruin, and Rachel Maddow about a building in Warsaw, but I care about my history. These savages are smashing and graffitiing my antiquities.

How would they like it if we took a sledgehammer to “Piss Christ”?


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Eegore
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Re: Grey Lives Matter
Reply #1 - 09/16/21 at 05:23:34
 

 Are monuments/statues etc. the property of the City they are in?

 If so I believe incorporated municipalities have control over them and can remove/move destroy them as they are maintained by the City, as a corporation, even though those funds come from tax dollars.

 It is important to reiterate that the words "I" and "believe" are meant to convey this is my belief and my belief only based off a minimum amount interaction with statues within  a single City within the US and no other form of evidence.  

 We had a statue of Athena that was moved from City property to private property due to protests from religious groups indicating that Pagan symbols could not be maintained with tax dollars.  This is untrue, but it was easier for the City to toss the statue over to a private company and leave it at that.

 I for one could care less what they do with statues.  Put them up, tear them down, not sure why any of that matters to begin with.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Grey Lives Matter
Reply #2 - 09/16/21 at 07:06:34
 
I for one could care less what they do with statues.  Put them up, tear them down, not sure why any of that matters to begin with.

I don’t really believe that. If so, you’d be a fan of Russian architecture where government building looks the same. Do you wear bland colored slacks and the same blue shirt with dark shoes every day? Do you ever admire old churches? The St. Louis Arch in my hometown? The Statue of Liberty? The many buildings in Rome? Sydney opera house?
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Eegore
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Re: Grey Lives Matter
Reply #3 - 09/16/21 at 10:32:46
 
"I don’t really believe that. If so, you’d be a fan of Russian architecture where government building looks the same."

 I have no preference of architecture beyond functionality.  I am fine with Brutalism especially those with reduce geometric layers.  I own no artwork, yard decors etc. people ask if "I just moved in" when they visit any of my homes.  I xeriscape my property for minimal maintenance.

 
"Do you wear bland colored slacks and the same blue shirt with dark shoes every day?"

 I buy black t-shirts in bulk and wear a black quarter-zip every day unless work or location parameters dictate a change.  I do wear the same shoes every day unless I am required to wear safety toe boots.  I own no clothing with prints, designs etc. unless it is pertinent to my employment.


"Do you ever admire old churches?"

 No.  I do see the value of the longevity in the engineering used to build and maintain old buildings, churches or otherwise.  Religion is irrelevant to this.  I'd say I respect the method more than admire it.


 "The St. Louis Arch in my hometown? The Statue of Liberty? The many buildings in Rome? Sydney opera house?"

 Same as with churches, the engineering is interesting.
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Re: Grey Lives Matter
Reply #4 - 09/16/21 at 11:25:00
 
Quote:
Eegore wrote on 09/16/21 at 05:23:34:
" ...  It is important to reiterate that the words "I" and "believe" are meant to convey this is my belief and my belief only based off a minimum amount interaction with statues within  a single City within the US and no other form of evidence.  ... "

Great that you state your opinion is based off of,
  One experience,
      in One city,
  with no other experience.

Quote:
Eegore wrote on 09/16/21 at 05:23:34:
 " ... could not be maintained with tax dollars.  This is untrue, ... "


Yet you say, “…This is untrue…” about another form of maintaining a statue,
Implying, that your first statement is Fact,
even though you state it is a one time experience.


Quote:
Eegore wrote on 09/16/21 at 05:23:34:
" ...   I for one could care less what they do with statues.  Put them up, tear them down, ... "


I believe you would care greatly !
In the case of a ‘statue’ being a orange plastic cone,
put in front of a popular restaurant hours before they are open.

Then later when their was no parking available
because that restaurant was so popular.
And you were going their at the last min,
(knowing you have a parking place)

If someone else, ‘removed’ that statue,
          before you arrived.
 You Would Care !


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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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MnSpring
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Re: Grey Lives Matter
Reply #5 - 09/16/21 at 11:38:12
 
...  I have no preference of architecture beyond functionality.  I am fine with Brutalism especially those with reduce geometric layers.  I own no artwork, yard decors etc. people ask if "I just moved in" when they visit any of my homes.  I xeriscape my property for minimal maintenance. ...
...  I buy black t-shirts in bulk and wear a black quarter-zip every day unless work or location parameters dictate a change.  I do wear the same shoes every day unless I am required to wear safety toe boots.  I own no clothing with prints, designs etc. unless it is pertinent to my employment. ...
...  No.  I do see the value of the longevity in the engineering used to build and maintain old buildings, churches or otherwise.  Religion is irrelevant to this.  I'd say I respect the method more than admire it. ...
...Same as with churches, the engineering is interesting.


Sounds a lot like, Herr Wolfgang Stromm, in the Perry Mason flick,
     'Case of the Fugitive Fraulein'
(Which I just happened to see last night)

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Eegore
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Re: Grey Lives Matter
Reply #6 - 09/16/21 at 12:32:03
 
"Great that you state your opinion is based off of,
 One experience,
     in One city,
 with no other experience."


 Why is that great?


"Yet you say, “…This is untrue…” about another form of maintaining a statue,
Implying, that your first statement is Fact,
even though you state it is a one time experience."


 
 I said that it is my belief and that I would not provide evidence.  So you can say I am implying fact all you want, it is still my belief, and I will not offer evidence.  The point of clarifying is so each sentence doesn;t have to have the disclaimer of belief.

 I believe a statue was in my city.  I believe it was Athena.  I believe it was interpreted as Pagan.  I believe people were upset about that.  



"I believe you would care greatly !
In the case of a ‘statue’ being a orange plastic cone,
put in front of a popular restaurant hours before they are open.

Then later when their was no parking available
because that restaurant was so popular.
And you were going their at the last min,
(knowing you have a parking place)

If someone else, ‘removed’ that statue,
         before you arrived.
You Would Care !"


 Those are road cones not statues.  That's like saying if someone came into my yard and removed my 4-runner "statue".  A 4-runner is a vehicle not a statue.  A road cone is a road cone not a statue.

 And for that matter - that did happen and I thought good for them for outsmarting me.
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« Last Edit: 09/16/21 at 15:27:38 by Eegore »  
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Eegore
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Re: Grey Lives Matter
Reply #7 - 09/17/21 at 06:41:12
 

Just to be clear, I am indicating that I do not care what happens to statues, or if they exist.  "I" meaning me in exclusivity with the exemption of all other humans.  Statues meaning "a three-dimensional representation usually of a person, animal, or mythical being that is produced by sculpturing, modeling, fabrication or casting" and only those things.

 I do understand things like flags, art, statues etc. hold meaning of different degrees to people, which is fine.  I have no opinion on that.

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Re: Grey Lives Matter
Reply #8 - 09/17/21 at 10:29:47
 
It was some years ago that I started questioning the reasons for a lot of things. I also have no attachment to memorials to wars, and I too appreciate the engineering of certain things, like the arch, the Eiffel tower, Statue of Liberty, but I'm not gonna get misty eyed over any of it. The church of Notre Dame burning? Bummer, because it has endured and the design and construction were appreciable, the fact it's a church doesn't matter to me either way.
I've never inspected my feelings about monuments to the men who were instrumental to the founding documents and struggle for independence. Now I'm either going to have to do that or shrug it off. Probably gonna shrug it off, because how I feel about any of it won't change a thing.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: Grey Lives Matter
Reply #9 - 09/17/21 at 12:42:25
 
 I have the same thought, my complacency to statue or monument existence doesn't impact anything so who cares.

 I know that public placement is an issue for some.  For instance there is a Christopher Columbus statue in a city and there is always a push to have it removed/destroyed since Columbus somehow single-handedly brought genocide to the US.

 There is also a Sons of Italy chapter that owns a building in the same city, so my recommendation, since it worked with the Athena statue, was to remove Columbus and let the Sons of Italy display it.  However many people don't agree and say the statue needs to remain where it is, in public, on public property.  This I don't understand.

 I do understand the risk that any private group would be taking on by assuming control of the statue.  I imagine that if Sons of Italy displayed the statue in their window it would be damaged or vandalized.
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