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Not looking real Promising (Read 315 times)
Serowbot
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #45 - 09/09/21 at 08:58:34
 
WebsterMark wrote on 09/09/21 at 08:38:28:
Is it a pandemic if that’s the case?

Technically I'm not sure.
Endemic?...
But it is global.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #46 - 09/09/21 at 10:01:01
 
Why not just stop everything? If the numbers you presented are correct, and I assume they are, then the solution is available to everyone. So just stop. Stop requiring mask stop having lottery winners for vaccination, stop firing people, stop requiring proof of vaccination, just stop.

If you’re vaccinated you’re basically immune to serious illness. So why are we forcing other people to be vaccinated? Isn’t it their choice? If someone doesn’t vaccinate it doesn’t really impact me that much. Sure there’s a risk I could get a little bit sick from them but, we don’t stop people from eating so much they turn into big fat slobs and can’t do anything. Those people affect me as much as someone who doesn’t get vaccinated. they take up room in a hospital, they drive up insurance cost, they negatively affect how retail environments operate efficiently. Their weakened immune systems mean they get colds easily and they pass that on to me as I try to squeeze past them. We don’t force them to a gym, we don’t force them to buy certain foods.

If the vaccine is that effective then let people decide if they want to get it or not. If they don’t, they’re assuming the vast majority of the risk. If they don’t, I assume a very small percentage of the risk. No greater risk than I assume in all kinds of situations in every day life. We let 16 year olds drive and they’re far more likely to cause an accident but we do it anyway.

So I say let people decide or not if they want to get the vaccine on their own.
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #47 - 09/09/21 at 11:06:10
 
I have a friend in Dallas.  He's in need of a bypass but can't get scheduled because of hospital overcrowding.
If that delay causes a heart attack, I'm sure they'll find space, but meanwhile he could die from medical care rationing.
Covid is causing that.

Idaho is saying consider your activities... wear a seatbelt, avoid accidents, because we may not be able to take you in an emergency.
Beds are full... surgeries delayed... oxygen shortages.
Nurses and doctors overwhelmed.
The unvaccinated is all our problem.
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #48 - 09/09/21 at 11:07:57
 
Quote:
So I say let people decide or not if they want to get the vaccine on their own.


"COME-ON,MAN !!" We start letting people make up their own minds and before you know it they'e gonna start up all that FREEDOM crap again. That'll just f*ck up all our plans and all our hard work will be right down the crapper. That what you want?

Sincerely,

Your  President, Uncle Joe

ps. Lets just go get us a couple of nice ice cream cones and calm down.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #49 - 09/09/21 at 13:18:09
 
Serowbot wrote on 09/09/21 at 11:06:10:
I have a friend in Dallas.  He's in need of a bypass but can't get scheduled because of hospital overcrowding.
If that delay causes a heart attack, I'm sure they'll find space, but meanwhile he could die from medical care rationing.
Covid is causing that.

Idaho is saying consider your activities... wear a seatbelt, avoid accidents, because we may not be able to take you in an emergency.
Beds are full... surgeries delayed... oxygen shortages.
Nurses and doctors overwhelmed.
The unvaccinated is all our problem.


If all of your numbers are correct, that’s a temporary situation that will correct itself.

And I’ve heard other stories how people can’t get emergency treatment because of all those unvaccinated people, but if I channel your comments about election fraud, those are very rare cases and they don’t really affect the course of the nation.

And frankly I’m not sure I believe all the hospitals and i’m not sure I believe everybody who says they know somebody who can’t get emergency treatment because the hospital is full of Covid patients.

I had surgery last October and was stuck in the recovery room for six or seven hours because they said all the rooms were full of Covid patients. That was BS. They had laid off housekeeping staff because so many people canceled elective surgeries the hospitals were losing money so they had a massive layoff. They had rooms, they just didn’t have enough people to clean them.

Fortunately my job put me in contact with large healthcare providers and their engineering groups so I get a lot of the inside scoop. hospitals or businesses just like any place else. You’re just a number to them. If they can make more money hospitalizing someone with Covid as opposed to someone else without Covid, that’s who they’re going to hospitalize. Since Covid strikes the elderly far more often and far more seriously than others, there are far more patients on Medicare in hospitals being treated for Covid. Medicare payments fluctuate based on the diagnosis and I believe Medicare payment to hospitals for Covid is slightly higher than otherwise. I’ve seen 15% and I’ve seen 20%. Not sure which is correct. Either way if you’re operating a business and you can get 15% more for each room occupied, you don’t think there’s an incentive to fill those room at a higher rate? Of course there is.  I don’t know all the details to this but I suspect there’s more to this than meets the eye.

Bottom line if your friend really needs a bypass, he should be able to get it.He might be yanking your chain a little. Or it’s not really that bad.

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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #50 - 09/09/21 at 14:11:12
 
Be careful with your train of thought,.. it may lead you to supporting a not for profit NHS...
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WebsterMark
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #51 - 09/09/21 at 14:16:50
 
No chance. For profit healthcare has saved my life, my sons life and tens of millions of others. Nationalized healthcare kills. I’ve been to the VA. I don’t want healthcare run by the same people that run license offices.
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #52 - 09/10/21 at 08:26:52
 
If you’re vaccinated you’re basically immune to serious illness. So why are we forcing other people to be vaccinated? Isn’t it their choice? If someone doesn’t vaccinate it doesn’t really impact me that much. Sure there’s a risk I could get a little bit sick from them but, we don’t stop people from eating so much they turn into big fat slobs and can’t do anything. Those people affect me as much as someone who doesn’t get vaccinated. they take up room in a hospital, they drive up insurance cost, they negatively affect how retail environments operate efficiently. Their weakened immune systems mean they get colds easily and they pass that on to me as I try to squeeze past them. We don’t force them to a gym, we don’t force them to buy certain foods.


 I think, given your example, that the infection transmission rates are significantly higher than catching the common cold while passing by someone.  I think the general idea is there though.  We could hope that the general passing of Covid among the unvaccinated cycles out the genetically indisposed first and fast enough that infection rates drop because most die within a decade.  

 This of course goes against a lot of the general public health philosophies.  These of course can go overboard, and we start to go into the realm of taking freedoms in the interest of "public health" when a lot of it is actually in the interest of "private health".

 Another option would be to develop Covid infection centers designed specifically for the higher volume of patients and treatment types.  Bottom line is Covid hospitalizes and kills more than the common cold, so we need to come up with treatment alternatives that won't burden the critical care system.

 It is a valid question to inquire why any free adult should be forced to get a vaccine.  So far, the people I know that claim they are forced are not.  They can leave their job or get tested weekly.  I know that mandatory flu shots has decreased employee absences during "flu season" within medical centers, so there is value in that regard.  Free US Citizens aren't required to get a flu shot, but employees are.

 
 
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #53 - 09/10/21 at 09:31:19
 
Quote:
Eegore wrote on 09/10/21 at 08:26:52:
" ... Free US Citizens aren't required to get a flu shot, but employees are.  


I see, so a person, who is a employee, is not free.

So is a, 'Free Citizen', one who is on the dole,
(they are not employed)
and cannot be required to take a drug test,
to get, 'welfare/s'.
(Like many employed people are REQUIRED to do,
to have the, 'privilege',
of giving their hard earned money to a welfare receiving person)


Where does a retired person stand?
Are they free or not ?
They were a 'employee' at one time,
they were FORCED to take some of the money they worked for and give it to the government, with the promise they will get it back, (which they will NEVER get all of it back)

Were they, 'free' when they were growing up,
then become not free, because they were employed,
and now become free again, when they are not employed ?

           I was taught,
that ALL USA CITIZENS were FREE !

(Wait, just for the nitpicking panty in a bunch crowd, Free, unless YOU have given up that, by committing a crime)

Ah, forgot, that is also,
   NOT taught any longer in schools.
What is taught, is that a person
who has a certain color skin,  
a certain heritage,
a certain religion,
a certain sexual preference,
is BETTER than another person
who does not possess those special features.



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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #54 - 09/10/21 at 14:56:55
 

"" ... Free US Citizens aren't required to get a flu shot, but employees are.  


I see, so a person, who is a employee, is not free.
"

 No.  That is you being difficult on purpose.  

 To clarify:  Free US Citizens aren't required to get a flu shot.  Free US Citizens that are employed voluntarily by a business that requires a flu shot are required to have a flu shot to maintain their employment.

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #55 - 09/10/21 at 17:48:11
 
Coercion,,
If sex is involved,, someone is in trouble.
The government creating financial incentives for employers to force employees to get the jab
Unconscionable..evil.
Hold someone's job hostage..
You can pretend it's voluntary,,
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #56 - 09/11/21 at 08:35:20
 
Quote:
Eegore wrote on 09/10/21 at 14:56:55:
 No.  That is you being difficult on purpose.  


Am I being, 'Difficult',
because my POV is not, ‘lock-step’, with your POV ?
Or because one of my POV’s is  that Ding-Dong and HO-HO,
want  US Citizens to, NOT, be Free ?

Quote:
Eegore wrote on 09/10/21 at 14:56:55:
" ... Free US Citizens that are employed voluntarily by a business that requires a flu shot are required to have a flu shot to maintain their employment.


Joe Blow does not have a job.
J.B. wants a job, to be able to feed his family.
The only place J.B. can, ‘voluntarily’, get a job, is at a place that employs over 100 people.
J.B. is not longer ‘FREE’, because the POTUS has said he MUST get a shot.

I Think about abortion.
Abortion is a, ‘Choice’.
One does not, HAVE, to have a abortion.
I believe the bruhaha is about the reasons for the ‘choice’.
If one of the reasons, (95 + %), was not, convenient/s,
abortion would not be such a hot topic.

Again for the panty in a bunch/nit pickers,
does not having a abortion affect other people?
Ya Bets Ya,  it most certainly does.

However Not having a shot,
is, ‘suppose to’ not affect someone that chose to have a shot.
      (Key Words, 'SUPPOSE TO’)

            Golly Gee Wally,
Why are the UL, DFI, FDS, Socialists
so up in arms about, ‘Choice’ for Abortion,
Yet are DEMANDING,
NO CHOICE, when it comes to taking a drug ?

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #57 - 09/11/21 at 12:43:15
 
"Joe Blow does not have a job.
J.B. wants a job, to be able to feed his family.
The only place J.B. can, ‘voluntarily’, get a job, is at a place that employs over 100 people.
J.B. is not longer ‘FREE’, because the POTUS has said he MUST get a shot.
"


 What is your definition of "Free US Citizen"?

 Mine is a US Citizen that is not incarcerated.

 J.B. in your scenario is a Free US Citizen, that has made an undesirable career choice.  He is not incarcerated, bound or otherwise limited by law, from examining alternatives to his employment position.  

 By your logic any US Citizen that works a job that has criteria, like not smoking or being physically fit enough etc. is no longer Free.  All firefighters in this country that would prefer to smoke and be lazy are not Free US Citizens by your logic.

 Just because we have to work at a job we do not want, to me, does not mean we are not a Free US Citizen and have been incarcerated against our will and must work that job.


 So when you state, and not ask, that I mean by being an employee  one is no longer Free, you are incorrect.  I mean Non-Incarcerated US Citizens.
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #58 - 09/12/21 at 07:38:29
 
Quote:
Eegore wrote on 09/11/21 at 12:43:15:
" ...  All firefighters in this country that would prefer to smoke and be lazy are not Free US Citizens by your logic.  ..."



          Golly Gee Wally,
I say a person, who gets a job,
that now is suddenly,
      REQUIRED,
to put something his/her body.
Is equivalent to,  
all Firefighters want to be lazy, and smoke !

What a master at SPINNING.

A job requiring certain qualification, Strength/Skill/Education/etc.
Is quite different than, someone being forced to do something.

But ‘Never Mind’, I am just being, ‘Difficult’ !
  (Say it in the voice of Gilda Radner)

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: Not looking real Promising
Reply #59 - 09/12/21 at 11:56:35
 
What is your definition of "Free US Citizen"?


"         Golly Gee Wally,
I say a person, who gets a job,
that now is suddenly,
     REQUIRED,
to put something his/her body.
Is equivalent to,  
all Firefighters want to be lazy, and smoke !
"


 I see your point here. But I was responding to when you said this:

"I see, so a person, who is a employee, is not free."

 "A person" = One single US Citizen
 "who is a employee" = One single US Citizen that has any job of any kind.
 "is not free" = is incarcerated or otherwise has freedoms removed.

 This, to me, means any Single US Citizen that is employed is not free.  Firefighters are employed - they are not free US citizens.


"A job requiring certain qualification, Strength/Skill/Education/etc.
Is quite different than, someone being forced to do something.
"

 They aren't being "forced".  They can choose not to, as a Non-Incarcerated US Citizen and lose/leave their job.

 I'm not saying it is ok, I am saying that the term "forced" means, to me, no choice, or that they will be taken into custody, strapped down and given a shot.  That, to me, is forced.  If anything they are being coerced.

 Similar to saying a person who can't carry a gun at work are having their ability to defend themselves taken away.  They can't use their arms, run, stab spit etc.  Without a gun they can only stay stationary and be assaulted.  This is wrong, they have had a choice to use a gun on that private property removed, and have had their ability to defend themselves limited or reduced.

 
 
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