Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 8
Send Topic Print
They're Not Proud? (Read 528 times)
T And T Garage
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9839

They're Not Proud?
05/15/21 at 16:44:20
 
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 13171

Gender: male
Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #1 - 05/16/21 at 07:28:22
 
The guy’s right; Trump abandoned them. He was still in office with pardon power when it became clear the leftist media had fabricated the insurrection story and leftist politicians saw a great opportunity dropped in their lap. So now the DOJ keeps these people in solitary with promises of essentially life in prison while BLM and antifa routinely attack public officials and private individuals with actual violence while facing very little consequences. The guy should be pi$$ed. We all should be pi$$ed at the way one group of protesters is treated vs another.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Eegore
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 8398

Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #2 - 05/16/21 at 13:42:39
 
 What do you mean by "fabricated the insurrection story"?  As far as I can tell there is no question that these people were in the restricted areas of the US Capitol for the purpose of stopping election proceedings.  This guy admits it, there's video, what is fabricated?

 I for one cant believe anyone would think Trump was going to pardon regular US citizens that went into the Capitol.  Nothing about that matches his past behavior.  

 
"So now the DOJ keeps these people in solitary"

 Solitary?  Where did you find this information?  Solitary is rare in US prisons now.  If they are in special or "segregated" housing they are still celled with another inmate.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
T And T Garage
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9839

Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #3 - 05/16/21 at 19:06:36
 
You beat me to the punch Eegore!

Well done!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 13171

Gender: male
Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #4 - 05/16/21 at 20:01:22
 
Eegore wrote on 05/16/21 at 13:42:39:
 What do you mean by "fabricated the insurrection story"?  As far as I can tell there is no question that these people were in the restricted areas of the US Capitol for the purpose of stopping election proceedings.  This guy admits it, there's video, what is fabricated?

 I for one cant believe anyone would think Trump was going to pardon regular US citizens that went into the Capitol.  Nothing about that matches his past behavior.  

 
"So now the DOJ keeps these people in solitary"

 Solitary?  Where did you find this information?  Solitary is rare in US prisons now.  If they are in special or "segregated" housing they are still celled with another inmate.


The only difference between Jan 6th at the Capitol and the 2 or 3 nights when protestors lined the streets outside The White House is the security at the Capitol moved aside but not at The White House. Had they breached the fences protecting The White House and got inside, they would have killed Trump and his family. No difference between the two.

Hindsight is 20-20 but if we knew now what those protestors would face, I absolutely would have been in favor of a pardon if possible.

As Elizabeth Warren about solitary.

Look, this was no insurrection. This was a protest that spontaneously got out of hand. There was no plan, this was no armed rebellion and they are being punished far greater than 1) they deserve and 2) vastly disproportionate to the leftist rioters in various places across the nation.

And it’s insane that the killer of Ashley Babbit was adjudicated in secret with his identity unknown. Imagine for one second if an unarmed female BLM protester breaking into a government building had been shut down and the shooter’s identity was kept secret and he was not charged......
just imagine.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Eegore
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 8398

Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #5 - 05/16/21 at 20:23:37
 
"And it’s insane that the killer of Ashley Babbit was adjudicated in secret with his identity unknown. Imagine for one second if an unarmed female BLM protester breaking into a government building had been shut down and the shooter’s identity was kept secret and he was not charged......
just imagine."


 I brought that up here before.  I think if it were ANTIFA it would just be the opposite people responding.  If some black mask ANTIFA supporter was killed then the classified status of the LEO would be scrutinized by non-Trump supporters, but accepted by Trump supporters.  The tactics for response would be different, historically ANTIFA or similar based responses tend to impact non-participants at larger scale.


 As for the term "insurrection" I do believe the Jan 6th event is accurately called an insurrection if we examine the entirety of the evidence.  The weeks of pre-planning online, the improvised explosives, and even just a mop handle is by definition considered taking up arms.  However not every participant was armed, or intending on entering the building.

 This is why each participant should be given a trial, and charged appropriately.  "Getting out of hand" is not an excuse, it is certainly not a legal defense when talking about entering buildings.  I do not think someone that entered the building and didn't really do anything should get a full sentence allowed by law, but I also do not think they should be able to walk away saying "Meh, I got out of hand".  You go parade around posting your criminal trespass on Facebook and tell me you won't get a harsher response than somebody that did the same thing, but didn't take photos and brag about it.

 As for the referenced article, some of these guys admit they were going with intent to enter and stop the ceremony.  That's not peaceful protest getting out of hand, that is intentional and they thought Trump would get their back.  They were wrong.

 I expect to be held accountable for my actions, so I am ok expecting that of others.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 13171

Gender: male
Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #6 - 05/17/21 at 03:57:01
 
I brought that up here before.  I think if it were ANTIFA it would just be the opposite people responding.  If some black mask ANTIFA supporter was killed then the classified status of the LEO would be scrutinized by non-Trump supporters, but accepted by Trump supporters.  The tactics for response would be different, historically ANTIFA or similar based responses tend to impact non-participants at larger scale

“ tend to impact non-participants at larger scale“.....  WTF dude.....! Impacting non-participants on a larger scale means rioting, beating random people, burning buildings down.  You are so far off on that answer I’m gonna put it down to the fact it was late and you’re not thinking clearly. Think about what that means, think about what you just said. It’s absolute nonsense.

And no, if an unidentified white policeman shot and killed a black BLM rioter peacefully protesting while breaking into a government office and he was adjudicated anonymously in secret, whole hole cities would F’ing burn. You know that.

Insurrectionist, these horrible terrible people who plan in advance to attack and kill every Democratic US congressman, lose one of their own, murdered during their insurrection, yet there have been no protest in her honor? Nothing burned, no statues ripped down, no streets repainted with her name, really? And you’re gonna try to tell me that’s the same response and BLM or antifa would have?

That’s the same line of thinking that tries to draw and equate moral comparisons between the Palestinians and Israelis. There is no moral comparison.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Eegore
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 8398

Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #7 - 05/17/21 at 06:04:22
 
" WTF dude.....! Impacting non-participants on a larger scale means rioting, beating random people, burning buildings down."

 Yeah.  These things, to me, mean that there is impact to non-participants on a larger scale.  I've been to places with really large scale violence and infrastructure destabilization.  Entire cities destroyed, thousands displaced, thousands killed, I've literally hauled hundreds of dead in front end loaders into mass graves.  The beating random people, and burning a few buildings is, to me, mild by comparison.  
 

"And no, if an unidentified white policeman shot and killed a black BLM rioter peacefully protesting while breaking into a government office and he was adjudicated anonymously in secret, whole hole cities would F’ing burn. You know that."

 Yeah, as I said: impact to non-participants on a larger scale.  I think however that if it were a BLM supporter the Trump supporters would be ok with classified status LEO.  


"And you’re gonna try to tell me that’s the same response and BLM or antifa would have?"

 No.  I very specifically said the impact to non participants would be on a larger scale.  How can you address my statement at the beginning of your post then claim I did not say there would be a difference on the same post?  "Larger" by definition does not mean "equal" or "the same".


"That’s the same line of thinking that tries to draw and equate moral comparisons between the Palestinians and Israelis. There is no moral comparison."

 I'm not placing any moral value to any of this.  I am saying that if an ANTIFA supporter was killed in the same location as Babbitt, Trump supporters would be ok with that.  But since it was a Trump supporter that was killed, they are not ok with that.  

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 13171

Gender: male
Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #8 - 05/17/21 at 06:52:23
 
I'm not placing any moral value to any of this.  If you can't place a moral value to this, what's the point of commenting? This is not a math equation or an academic exercise.

I am saying that if an ANTIFA supporter was killed in the same location as Babbitt, Trump supporters would be ok with that.  But since it was a Trump supporter that was killed, they are not ok with that.  

That's not my point. My point was (and you know this is true), had a Antifa rioter been shot and killed in the same circumstances at the White House one of those days where they were lined up outside the fence, antifa, BLM and others would have rioted and burned cities if the killer was kept anonymous. . An unarmed woman was shot and killed yet the Proud Boys etc.. did not riot and burn cities. There is no moral equivalence between Proud Boys and antifa. None.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Rockn
Junior Member
**
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 87

Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #9 - 05/17/21 at 07:39:58
 
Ah yes, WM uses the "the other side would have done worse" as a defense. Is highly effective.

It's cute you've chosen to double down on hating the media and blaming everyone but those involved. You seem to consume a lot of the media you hate so much, maybe time to turn off the "fake news" and enjoy the reality around you instead. Yelling into your echo chamber certainly isn't going to change any minds.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
MnSpring
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Younger than most
people my age.

Posts: 9386
Minn
Gender: male
Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #10 - 05/17/21 at 09:51:26
 
Quote:
Eegore wrote on 05/17/21 at 06:04:22:
...
I've been to places with really large scale violence and infrastructure destabilization.  
Entire cities destroyed, thousands displaced, thousands killed,
I've literally hauled hundreds of dead in front end loaders into mass graves.

...  


Wow, can you share with us, when and where that was ?
Back to top
 
 

Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
  IP Logged
MnSpring
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Younger than most
people my age.

Posts: 9386
Minn
Gender: male
Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #11 - 05/17/21 at 10:28:31
 
Quote:
Eegore wrote on 05/16/21 at 20:23:37:
" ...  I do believe the Jan 6th event is accurately called an insurrection if we examine the entirety of the evidence.  The weeks of pre-planning online, the improvised explosives, and even just a mop handle is by definition considered taking up arms.  ... "

See: planned or spontaneous
Back to top
 
 

Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 13171

Gender: male
Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #12 - 05/17/21 at 10:45:42
 
Ah yes, WM uses the "the other side would have done worse" as a defense. Is highly effective.
Glad you agree. It is effective.

It's cute you've chosen to double down on hating the media and blaming everyone but those involved.
I’m not giving them a pass, I’m just agreeing they deserve to be treated like terrorist.

You seem to consume a lot of the media you hate so much, maybe time to turn off the "fake news" and enjoy the reality around you instead. Yelling into your echo chamber certainly isn't going to change any minds.
Not yelling and I have changed my mind on here before and have persuaded others to reconsider. Perhaps because I do in fact live in reality, I’m able accomplish this.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Rockn
Junior Member
**
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 87

Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #13 - 05/17/21 at 11:15:37
 
Youre hilarious. Glad to see your return, the tall table was missing some entertainment.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Eegore
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 8398

Re: They're Not Proud?
Reply #14 - 05/17/21 at 12:08:14
 

" If you can't place a moral value to this, what's the point of commenting? This is not a math equation or an academic exercise."


 Why would I need to assign a moral value to any topic in order to have an opinion?


"That's not my point. My point was (and you know this is true), had a Antifa rioter been shot and killed in the same circumstances at the White House one of those days where they were lined up outside the fence, antifa, BLM and others would have rioted and burned cities if the killer was kept anonymous."

 Yeah.  I already said, the which you acknowledged, that the impact to non-participants would be larger.  


"There is no moral equivalence between Proud Boys and antifa. None."

 Ok.  I am just saying that if ANTIFA had been killed as Babbitt was Trump supporters would not be as upset as they are when a Trump supporter is killed.  They would accept the classified LEO information easier.  You can assign moral value to that, to me it is just the expected outcome.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 8
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
10/08/24 at 16:27:56



General CategoryPolitics, Religion (Tall Table) › They're Not Proud?


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.