Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print
Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker (Read 320 times)
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4121
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #30 - 05/08/21 at 18:50:43
 
With the 6-pound stocker.  What was Newton’s first law?  A body at rest will remain at rest; a body in motion will remain in motion; unless acted upon……….  The flywheel law.
Back to top
 

Flywheel_Stock.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4121
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #31 - 05/08/21 at 18:51:19
 
It got a new set of rings.  The valves, seats & guides all looked primo.  A quick compression check pumped 160 psi, right where it’s supposed to be.  Ready for action.
Back to top
 

Compression_160_psi.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4121
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #32 - 05/08/21 at 18:52:50
 
Break-in consisted of two-hundred miles to seat the rings.  I observed a few things during the break-in.

It ran a lot hotter than the Wiseco Flat-top engine.  It was especially evident at steady-state operation, like on the freeway.  Nothing to be alarmed about, but it runs hotter.  Cylinder head temps were in the 310°F to 340°F range, and oil temp was in the 190°F to 220°F range.

Fuel economy was significantly lower than the Wiseco Flat-top engine.  The stocker was getting about 57 mpg.

Vibration levels were low.  The mirrors were crystal clear between 3500 and 4500 rpm.

Noise levels were exceptionally low.  I used my iPad with the NIOSH app to check the decibels at 1300/3000/4000 rpm under the exact conditions used for my muffler shootout.  The box-stock Savage whispered 57/72/76 dB.  (typo DBM)

Mechanical noise was also much lower.  Clicking, tapping and slapping seemed significantly reduced from the levels I was hearing with the forged Wiseco pistons and bigger cams.

It ran a bit erratic.  Lot’s of afterfire, popping, KaBooms, etc.  Deceleration was horrible.  It was embarrassing.  Steady-state was OK and it had decent throttle response.  As expected, warmup was not pleasant.  At least it wasn’t surging.

It was anemic, consistent with a box-stock Savage.  Three years ago, I dynoed this thing when it was totally stock.  It pumped out a blistering 30.5 horsepower at 5300 rpm  (dead nuts on the factory rating).  So now, when I do the performance tests on the stocker, the timed runs should be a good representation of what a 30.5 HP Savage can do.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 05/16/21 at 00:30:52 by DragBikeMike »  

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4121
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #33 - 05/08/21 at 18:53:28
 
Look at that power curve.  Pretty impressive.  It goes flat right at 5000 rpm.  The real-world performance was consistent with the dyno data.  It was done at 5500.
Back to top
 

Dyno_03_30_182.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4121
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #34 - 05/08/21 at 18:54:26
 
All that was left were the performance tests to see what this econo-cruiser could do.  The test plan was to do timed pulls in second, third and fifth gear.  Each pull would be performed in the same location (Secret DBM Closed-Course Test Track).

The second gear pulls are intended to get a feel for how the thing is running.  I start the pull about 3000 rpm and stop about 7500 rpm.  Then I review the video and use a stopwatch to time acceleration from 4000 rpm to 7000 rpm.  If the second gear pull isn’t clean, or if there’s a significant disparity (like grossly lean fuel mixture), no sense forging ahead with the taller gears.

The third gear pulls are a measure of all-out acceleration.  These pulls are much easier to time, and the stop-watch readings are consistent.  If there’s a change in performance, it’s obvious.  Start, stop and timing points are the same as the second gear pull.  Since it’s an all-out test, I crouch down out of the wind (get under the paint) to maximize the performance.

The fifth gear pulls are a measure of real-world performance.  I start the pull about 3000 rpm and stop about 6000 rpm.  Timing points are 3500 rpm to 5500 rpm (55 mph to 85 mph).  Like the third gear pulls, they are easy to time, and the stop-watch readings are consistent.   I sit straight up on the bike and barge through the wind, just like you would do if you were trying to pass an 18-wheeler.  I view this test as the most instructive.  I think it measures exactly what most of us are looking for.
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4121
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #35 - 05/08/21 at 18:56:56
 
The second gear test went well.  The stocker pulled 4K to 7K in 4.60 seconds.  No glitches, air/fuel ratio was in the mid twelves.  It was safe to forge ahead.

The third gear test didn’t go as well.  It couldn’t pull 7K in third.  It signed off at 6700 rpm.  I will have to lower the timing point for the baseline and initial tests until I reach a level of modification where “the little engine that could” can pull past 7000 rpm.  For now, looks like we will have to settle for 6500 rpm.  So, the stocker pulled 4K to 6.5K in 10.48 seconds.

The fifth gear test went a bit better.  The stocker pulled 3.5K to 5.5K in 22.43 seconds.  Hey, at least it made it to 5.5K.  I must admit, the video was painful to watch.  The showroom sled signed off completely at 5500 rpm.  It simply wasn’t going any faster.
 
In the interest of fairness, I figured I should reduce the fifth gear timing threshold too.  It does a lot better if you stop the timing at 5000 rpm (about 75 mph).  So, similar to third gear, I will be using a lower threshold for the initial fifth gear tests.  The timing points will be 3.5K to 5K until I reach a level of modification where the thing can pull past 5.5K.   The stocker does 3.5K to 5K in 9.47 seconds.

There you have it.

The box-stock Savage baseline is:

Second gear 4K to 7K = 4.60 seconds

Third gear 4K to 6.5K = 10.48 seconds

Fifth gear 3.5K to 5K = 9.47 seconds

Fifth gear 3.5K to 5.5K = 22.43 seconds
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4121
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #36 - 05/08/21 at 18:59:40
 
Next stop (Part 2) is the airbox.  We’re going to free up a little airflow and add a bit of fuel to see how much performance lurks in the bowels of that black plastic mouse trap.  I think some of you will be surprised.

Once the airbox is optimized, we will focus on the exhaust system.
 
After the exhaust system, maybe the carburetor or possibly the flywheel.  Give me some feedback to help decide which one to test first.   One costs money, the other needs special tools.

I hope some of you find this project informative and can use the data I collect to help make decisions on your own project.  If you have suggestions or comments on my test methods, post a reply so we can discuss.   As mentioned earlier, if you have a particular component or modification that you would like to see included, let me know and we can collaborate.

Best regards, Mike
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
Fast 650
Senior Member
****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 387
Valrico, FL
Gender: male
Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #37 - 05/08/21 at 20:03:34
 
Swapping in a lighter flywheel requires special tools that most people don't have on hand. I say go for the mods that are the most likely things that the average guy can do in his garage. Do the carb swap then the cam before going to the lighter flywheel.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
zipidachimp
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1380
surrey, b.c.
Gender: male
Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #38 - 05/09/21 at 14:14:35
 
I'd like to see if a larger K&N than the RC1250 would have any effect. It might mean cutting the bar mating the 2 tank bolts.

Yes, I'm cheap, otherwise I would have done it already.

DBM, you appear to have more patience than I could ever muster. Love to read about all your experiments. From the immortal Burt Munro: 'sacrifices to the god of speed!'
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Armen
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Half-Witted
Wrench-Jockey from
Jersey

Posts: 1431

Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #39 - 05/09/21 at 14:37:44
 
Love it!
Thanks for posting!
Back to top
 
 

In theory, theory and reality are the same. In reality, they aren't...
  IP Logged
Hiko
Senior Member
****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 250
Tauranga New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #40 - 05/10/21 at 00:05:05
 
Looking forward to seeing the airbox data
I have done the carb jetting and the dyna muffler  i also have done the exhaust header / head sleeve mod from Drag bike Mike and his rear pulley wobble fix   I am something of a fan !  All these mods have been improvements and made the bike run better
Back to top
 
 
Hiko   IP Logged
Fast 650
Senior Member
****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 387
Valrico, FL
Gender: male
Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #41 - 05/10/21 at 10:34:45
 
The LS650 suffers from chronic asthma. Get it to breathe right and the power is there. Just the airbox, jetting, and muffler changes alone will reap big gains for practically no money spent. Those are so easy that anyone should be able to those mods at home with simple hand tools.






Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Armen
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Half-Witted
Wrench-Jockey from
Jersey

Posts: 1431

Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #42 - 05/10/21 at 10:41:53
 
Fast, that's like saying "Just win a land war against Russia."
A 4 valve OHC 650 should be making 50 HP in even a mediocre state of tune. My guess is that Jesus Christ on a bet couldn't get 50 HP out of one.
If you read all the work DBM did to squeeze some HP out of these, it's anything but quick and easy.
Back to top
 
 

In theory, theory and reality are the same. In reality, they aren't...
  IP Logged
Fast 650
Senior Member
****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 387
Valrico, FL
Gender: male
Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #43 - 05/10/21 at 12:23:49
 
I meant that those first few hp were easy. A 10% gain is simple. The next 10% will take more work, and the difficulty increases with each additional percent. It is like climbing a ladder with each higher rung being harder and more expensive.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4121
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker
Reply #44 - 05/10/21 at 13:59:14
 
Zipidachimp, I normally run a K&N RD0710 cylindrical filter.  It's 3.5" x 5".  It should have quite a bit more surface area than the RD1250 conical filter.  I will be including that mod in this project, but not until I get into a larger carburetor.  My airbox tests indicate that a larger filter probably won't do much for any setup using the stock carb.  We'll see. Thanks for suggesting a larger element.  It will certainly be on the list.

Hiko, I just finished up on the airbox tests.  Working on the report now. The results were fantastic.

Armen, you make a good point regarding the limits of our LS650 engine. I suspect the cylinder head is the culprit.  That's a very difficult component to alter.  A good friend of mine recently sent me some pics of a wind chime he made from an old piston & valves from a Honda CRF450.  I was impressed with the valves so I googled to find out the size. That engine uses 38mm intake valves.  Our LS uses 33mm intakes. The Honda has 200 cc less displacement but 5mm larger valves. Geeeeez!  You're right.  BIG horsepower is anything but quick & easy. But you can realize HUGE improvements in HP and drivability on the LS with modest investments of time & money.  That Honda redlines at 13,500. Just imagine how hard it would be to squeeze a few more ponies out of that thing.

Fastman, thanks for the suggestion regarding the cam vs flywheel. That's an interesting problem.  The flywheel requires a puller, special deep socket, and offest wrench.  I suspect a prudent shopper could probably find those tools on Amazon or eBay for about the price of a DR650 cam. You do the flywheel and you get to keep the tools for future projects. You do the cam and you get the benefit of the extended powerband, but you have to go a bit deeper into the engine.  It would be interesting to hear from some of the novices regarding which to tackle first.
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
04/16/24 at 01:56:07



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Evolution of a Hot Rod - Part 1: The Stocker


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.