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Pocket knives over the years (Read 437 times)
Oldfeller--FSO
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Pocket knives over the years
04/16/21 at 04:13:10
 

When I was a kid, we all carried pocket knives.   It was all part of being male and "being prepared" as we were all carefully taught by the Boy Scouts.

Old Timer was my preferred brand, and I mourned as that brand was moved to the orient and the steel simply wasn't right from then on.

Steel used to be high carbon heat treated tool steel, and knives rusted if you didn't keep the blades clean and oiled.   Knives became dull looking over time even if you did keep them oiled.  

But oh Momma, they were sharp and they sure did cut good for a right good long time, too.

Stainless Steel pocket knives rolled in, and shaving sharp edges went away.

Then Chinese stainless came in, and sharp edges went away.   Gummy roll over edges on Chinese stainless steel, oh my what a travesty pocket knives became.

(mind you, you CAN buy a good knife still, but expect to pay over $60-80 for it.    Crucible mixed Powdered Metal blades that gets really sharp and holds an edge well costs $80-$130 and you buy them from Spyderco and other boutique knife brands).


==================================================


Life span of a cheap Chinese pocket knife used to be just about a year before the cheap hinges and general poor body construction use gave out on them.

Kids these days don't carry pocket knives (which are all illegal in public schools).   If they need something significant now days, they carry a gun.

You have to sharpen your pocket knife regularly now, using a diamond grit lap plate instead of a sharpening stone.   Honing stones like to load up with the gummy soft Chinese stainless steel, so put away your good honing oil stones, put them up with your other valued antiques.


===================================================


If  you want a "slightly better" grade of cheap Chinese pocket knife, try "Master USA"  from AMAZON.    

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QL9J66C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s...



It has a "slightly better grade of cheap Chinese stainless blade steel" and the construction of a Master knife has a steel plate inside each of the injection molded side plates.  Hinge pins all are supported on both ends by these steel plates and the blade locks back solidly in the open position in between a steel pin and the wedge spring mechanism.  

This handle arrangement won't fold up or break on you in normal daily use like older Chinese pocket knives were so willing to do.

Master has "a spring driven opening mechanism" which you will have to keep both clean and oiled for it to work well.   You have several ways to get the knife open, the easiest is to pull back on the protruding blade tang tab until the spring action takes over.   It can be a one hand "finger tip open" using this feature once you get used to it.

Why all the self opening complexity?    I dunno, it comes stock on the cheapest semi-decent pocket knife on AMAZON which comes at a big whopping $4.13 price point.

We used to call such spring action things "switchblades" and they were always too fragile for real use as a pocket knife.   This knife is not fragile, the blade "clunks" into the locked position and it isn't going to fold up because you pushed the blade into a piece of wood.   It still isn't sharp, and it never will be sharp because the blade steel just isn't there and never will be.    


===================================================


Sharp knife blades still exist, but not on cheap pocket knives.

  The best edge you can get on these things is a finely SERRATED rough diamond honed edge.    Think wee tiny "steak knife" serrations and you got the main idea.

https://www.amazon.com/HTS-131A0-Double-Diamond-Sharpening/dp/B00U1T2ZVM/ref=...



Here is your $9.25 coarse and super fine serrated edge sharpening tool.   Use the rough coarse side with lots of soapy water to "reshape" the gummy Chinese stainless blade's form, then use the fine side to put a more refined serrated edge on the blade if you want "finer".

I don't want finer serrations, I find the rougher side makes a dandy serration that bites in and cuts easier than the fine side because the rougher serration edge bites into meat or wood better.

Seriously,  you will have to reform the blade's cutting edges regularly because the fine edge likes to fold over on you.  The little pocket knives are not sharp from the factory and the bevel angles chosen weren't ever intended to be sharp anyway by the factory that made them.

It just was intended to look like a knife, not to cut like one.

Huh

Now go cry in your beer for a bit and go fondle your last two remaining Oldtimer pocket knives, shave yourself a wee little patch of hair off your arm with one and somberly appreciate what a good cheap American pocket knife used to be ......


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« Last Edit: 04/17/21 at 18:01:07 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #1 - 04/17/21 at 19:40:52
 
OldFeller , let me ask ya this :

I know that you can add carbon to steel , so , "Can ya  add carbon to Stainless Steel the same way ?
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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #2 - 04/18/21 at 04:46:06
 

Stainless Steel contains over 12% Chromium and other additional elements to keep it from corroding.  There is simply too much junk in the metal to allow the carbide matrix to form correctly during the heat treat process.  

As they say in knives, in stainless steel you can have strength, toughness, or some edge holding ability ---- pick any two items.   Knife blades that snap easily in use are dangerous, so they trade off edge holding and toughness during heat treat to get a stronger product.

https://knifeuser.com/3cr13-stainless-steel-knife-review/     This is a review of the moderately well ranked 13% Chromium steel used in these knives.

There ARE much better nitrogen infused stainless knife steels and tool steels out there, but they cost a lot more $$$ now-a-days.   American manufacturers could make semi-decent kitchen knives out of stainless, but the Chinese are still learning how.

Here is a picture of a freshly reworked Master knife edge --- it will still dull easily and this edge will fold over if used roughly.   What I do is touch up just the edge at a slightly blunter angle so it will still cut acceptably but be strong enough to survive "being my daily pocket knife".

I keep two of the same knives in use at the same time and I sharpen my Chinese pocket knives every few days (as needed) as the edges aren't very good and the edges will burr and will fold over or get dull quite easily.  

My original Oldtimers used to go a few months between sharpenings.  

Oldtimer cutting edges never just folded over, ever, they might chip or notch if you abused them hard enough, but the edges never just folded over in normal use.

-----------------   this is a good trick

When sharpening knives on a diamond grit plate, take some black electrical tape and fold it over the back side of the blade, making sure it stops at the bottom of the hollow grind valley.

This keeps your factory blade finish intact while reshaping the blade as the stone angles from the tape surface to the cutting edge & stone surface while missing the rest of the nice factory surface finish.   You let the black tape smoothly glide over the wet soapy diamond plate (black tape wears very slowly, but needs keeping an eye on it when rotating sides) and you let the unsupported blade edge settle on into the bed of diamond grit as you lightly stroke it.

You should have a simple smooth motion that you can repeat by feel.   Not a lot of pressure is needed, so lightly does it.  You are reforming the edge angle and the edge form so the sharpening action makes a simple single arc out of the original somewhat irregular CNC ground point shape.

The resulting angle is a consistent  ~11o and you will modify that by hand later on as you fix roll overs, etc. by hand sharpening on a finer grit stone.  I like to use the rough side of the stone "as is" because the serrations it leaves cuts a lot quicker on the reform stage and it leaves a very aggressive serration that bites in better than a finer finish can bite.
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« Last Edit: 04/26/21 at 11:45:00 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #3 - 04/19/21 at 08:24:26
 
I still have a Buck lock-blade folding knife from the 80's.  I don't know how they're made now, but that thing is solid.
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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #4 - 04/19/21 at 09:37:05
 
I've got a Buck 110 from that time to... but it's so heavy I don't carry it.   ....

I did have one brand that was pronounced "kat" it seemed to hold an edge without being too heavy.   But it's lost now , I'm sure Smokey Mountain Knife Works could sell me a new one.   Fact is now I carry key-chain knifes and have a different ring for each vehicle.

So I need a light weight smaller knife . But holding an edge would be nice ... heck most of mine are impossible to sharpen.😟
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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #5 - 04/19/21 at 16:23:49
 


How "impossible"?   Too soft and gummy to suit your oil stone?   Or too small to handle?

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« Last Edit: 04/19/21 at 21:05:17 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #6 - 04/19/21 at 21:56:31
 
To soft to get an edge on.    by time the edge gets skinny ... it falls over ... so a blunt edge is all I can get on them.    Just the NATURE OF THE BEAST ya might say.  Grin

Three of them are those little knifes with the scissors , nail file , one blade , and then tweezers and a tooth pick stuck in the ends/sides of them .   They have little Red Cross's on the side ... but they are not red !  Roll Eyes

I've got a easy opening SCHRADE w/belt clip - in three and a half inch for a real knife , but its much to big for a keychain .   It takes an edge but don't hold it long , again with the Stainless Steel !   


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« Last Edit: 04/20/21 at 07:26:16 by MMRanch »  

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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #7 - 04/20/21 at 03:16:09
 
This is what I like
https://www.knifecenter.com/item/K55/otter-mercator-solingen-k55-black-cat-kn...

It is nice and flat. good size, has a interesting historical background.
and a smaller version is made (to be legal in some places).
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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #8 - 04/20/21 at 07:39:37
 
Could it be that SCHRADE has bought OLD TIMER ?

I was just looking for a picture of the SCHRADE model I've got and found this :

https://www.knifecenter.com/item/SCH97OT/schrade-sch97ot-old-timer-bearhead-t...

Huh
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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #9 - 04/20/21 at 09:44:58
 
"Could it be that SCHRADE has bought OLD TIMER ?"


 Imperial Schrade Corporation stopped manufacturing in 2004.  

 The "Old Timer" style, IP, schems etc. were all purchased by Taylor Brands LLC, which in turn moved production out of the US.  They also purchased Schrade, and Uncle Henry Knives.  

 In 2016 Smith & Wesson (Battenfeld Technologies) bought Taylor brands LLC.  I was hopeful S$W would make some improvements but it seems they were just acquiring more distribution methods.
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« Last Edit: 04/20/21 at 11:00:19 by Eegore »  
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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #10 - 04/20/21 at 10:12:26
 
I bought a Buck 3.5" folding pocket knife in the very early 80's for $60 that holds a nice edge for a long time. The ends of it are brass. It's my favorite, is beautiful, and doesn't get used much but thats ok.  Right after I bought it I was visiting mom and dad when a cow was giving birth and my dad used it in the process.  It took a little while to get it cleaned up.
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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #11 - 04/20/21 at 12:25:33
 
I remember the old original Buck knives with their insignia with a ten penny nail , a buck knife and a hammer. My brother and my father had them. So I took my brothers knife and cut a ten penny nail in two by hitting the back of the blade with the hammer.  I don’t think they still use that logo. The original Bucks were American made. That’s right no longer made in the USA and no longer a great knife. So much for progress ,
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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #12 - 04/20/21 at 12:54:09
 
Some of the best knives made are made by Benchmade in the USA ! I’ve had the same one for thirty years , I can still shave with it ! Hold on to your nuts before you price one tho , $$
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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #13 - 04/21/21 at 07:54:05
 



MM, it has 440C stainless blades, which isn't a shaving sharp steel type.

This from the comments listed for 440C stainless as a knife steel.

What is the best metal for a knife?

"Tool steels are a very popular choice for making knives. ...
Carbon steel grades with high amounts of carbon are desirable for knife making because they will give the blade the hardness and strength needed to hold up against impact and wear. ...

Stainless steel is another type of knife-making metal."


This 440C steel is why I quit buying Oldtimer knives ......

scroll down


One week of riding in my pocket report on the $4.13 Master pocket knife from Amazon .........

It cuts like a pocket knife, the feather thin serrated edge has required being touch honed twice and the very fine edge has finally stopped folding over for the last several days.   Tasks are opening plastic sacks, cutting plastic twine and cutting several little branches off of some bushes.  

In other words it survives general run of the mill pocket knife tasks .......

I really like the one finger spring open action, I find it very handy when my left hand is gripping something that needs cutting.  

Get it out of the pocket, flick it open with the same hand pointer finger and cut away .......



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Re: Pocket knives over the years
Reply #14 - 04/21/21 at 09:21:53
 
 Anyone use CRKT?

 I like their open-ended design philosophy and the various promoted designers.

 Cost range is diverse and the customer service from the few instances I have had were great.  We had modifications made to the M16 Carson model dubbed a Z-SF.  Had an extra blade "nub" so the hand wont go over the blade if you strike bone or similar hard surface, like a hilt, and the handle had the holes filled.  I think the new ones on the civilian market are stainless unfortunately.

 I have their torx driver tool and a few other items.
 
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