Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Modern oil schooling (Read 136 times)
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 17784
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Modern oil schooling
10/18/20 at 08:37:15
 
Modern oils are far better than what used to be available, and those improvements (along with improvements in engine materials) are making it routine for engines to last longer than the rest of the car or motorcycle.....it is not unusual for an engine to be running long after the rest of the chassis has been worn out.  When I was in my teens any car with 100,000 miles was worn out - now 200,000 is pretty common, and more than 300,000 miles can be achieved with the original engine.

Our Suzuki Savage engine has a bottom end with ball and roller bearings for the rod, crankshaft and transmission - and the bottom end is really flexible about the type of oil that is used.....and the piston/cylinder is also a bit insensitive about the type of oil.  However - the cam and rocker assembly in the Savage is very sensitive to the type of oil you use - it is important to stay within the recommended viscosity to that the cam and rockers get adequate oil flow, and that you use an oil with an adequate amount of ZDDP to keep the cam lobes and rocker arms protected (the old gray hair members of this forum have come to believe that somewhere between 1,000 - 1,200 ppm of ZDDP is needed fore engine longevity).

The attached YouTube video is very good at dispelling a lot of the myths about Synthetic oils and why it is fine to use them in vintage engines.  It also explains why supplementing the oil with oil thickeners (STP, Lucas) is not necessary or desirable in an engine (but it can be useful in transmissions).  Unfortunately this video does not discuss the ZDDP issue and why older engines can suffer cam and rocker wear when a modern engine oil is used in a vintage engine - but the video is definitely worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPFSR-2lhxY

Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Ruttly
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Thumpers Rule

Posts: 4997
Manteca , CA
Gender: male
Re: Modern oil schooling
Reply #1 - 10/19/20 at 16:18:10
 
I've been driving Ford Ranger & Mazda p/u for many years. All with 2.3 L engines and always ran Mobil Syn 5/20wt. The first one I bought new in 2003 sold it with 422,00 miles on it close to two years ago saw it the other day , being used for a pool cleaning company. Next was 2004 Mazda bought it with 97,000 sold it 2 years ago with 360,000 on it and being used by a gardening company. Now driving a 2010 Ford Ranger bought it with 74,000 on it currently has 190,000. For those who don't know Mazda p/u were made by Ford,same as a Ranger. I drive a lot of miles in a year. I would jump in any of those trucks and drive coast to coast without even thinking about it. I think Synthetic oil does what it says it does in most cases , it has done me right. I don't abuse my trucks , but I drive them hard , fast and a lot. Synthetic is the only way to go !
Back to top
 
 

The Topic Terminator
  IP Logged
zipidachimp
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1380
surrey, b.c.
Gender: male
Re: Modern oil schooling
Reply #2 - 10/19/20 at 20:57:20
 
10w30 used to be the standard for everything when I started to drive, 60 years ago!
Now, my 2012 Civic coupe uses 0w20 and it's only available in Synth! It's like frickin' water!
When did all this happen????
Cheers! Cool
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
sjaskow - FSO
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 364
Frozen Tundra of MN
Gender: male
Re: Modern oil schooling
Reply #3 - 10/21/20 at 10:52:07
 
zipidachimp wrote on 10/19/20 at 20:57:20:
10w30 used to be the standard for everything when I started to drive, 60 years ago!
Now, my 2012 Civic coupe uses 0w20 and it's only available in Synth! It's like frickin' water!
When did all this happen????
Cheers! Cool


The 0w20 synth is so you get less valve-train wear during startup due to the closer tolerances in the engine.

I spent part of '17 and '18 working for an AutoZone to supplement my income due to this unplanned move to Minnesota. We almost never had it in stock since it was so new then.
Back to top
 
 

2012 Victory Vision - http://www.jaskowiak.cc/vision
2006 Suzuki S40 - http://www.jaskowiak.cc/S40
WWW   IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4140
Honolulu
Re: Modern oil schooling
Reply #4 - 10/21/20 at 14:04:12
 
Thanks for the vid Dave.  I didn't know rotaries injected oil into the combustion chamber.
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
hj2223
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 25

Re: Modern oil schooling
Reply #5 - 10/21/20 at 19:51:31
 
Thanks for the education - stick to the owners manual on this one then...
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Zepp
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 220

Re: Modern oil schooling
Reply #6 - 11/03/20 at 10:58:29
 
I talked about oil to one of my Harley friends, he has three different oils, we got one, for everything!
I think that our engin is kind of modern, but Harleys three different casing, engin, gearbox and transmition.. newer Harleys cant be that old in specification that couldnt use the same oil?
In any case, we got an aircold engine, a overhead camshaft, a camshaft chain, a wet coupling.. its probably enginerd to go for a singel oil?

Its probably the cam and the chain that put moste of the strain of the oil, and mayby the cylinder/piston and the clutch that put some dirt in the oil?

If its, change oil frekvently, every year or at last every second year?

And to the topic of viscosity, modern oils is often better to keep the viscosity in all kind of temperture.

To that, modern oils are better at not breaking down att higer temperaraturs.

In any case, our engin is a 80s enginerd and then they didnt have all those modern oils, it probably could go whit those oils but mayby some more oil changes!

To that.. I have not read the manual that much.. but I have read several other manuals, for cars and bikes.. its often says, if one live in a very hot region, one can use a higer visciosity oil.. its common sens?

And to STP and other aditives,
whereby  I only use it on worn out motors, to get my a extra year befor I anyhove need to buy a new car.
But cars have dry clutches, our engin has a wet clutch, I dont think one like to have a very slipper clutch? Shocked
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12636
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: Modern oil schooling
Reply #7 - 11/11/20 at 21:13:45
 
Zepp, you should go to the Tech Section and read up on recommended oils.  

We have one (or two  depending on how fine you want to cut things).   We got a recommended dino version and a recommended full synth version.

Here is an index to the tech section you may find very useful.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1181745927



Your list recommended oil related stuff is here:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565

Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 11/12/20 at 04:17:15 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 17784
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Modern oil schooling
Reply #8 - 11/12/20 at 02:26:50
 
I have been wanting to update the oil thread.......we don't recommend using the ZDDP additive anymore, as we have learned that Rotella has enought ZDDP.  There was also a short period of time when T6 in the white bottle had too much moly and was causing clutches to slip.

The recommended oil is either Rotella T6 in 5W-40 (the 15w-40 can also be used if you don't ride in cold weather) - or the T4 in the 15W-40.

The "W" rating is measured at 0 degrees C (32f) - most of us never ride at those temperatures......the T6 rating of 5W would likely be a better oil if you ride in cold temperatures.
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12636
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: Modern oil schooling
Reply #9 - 11/12/20 at 04:28:04
 

Dave, what year did the bi-metal (inserted) tappet followers come into play?   Mention that when you do the trim job.

Before then you should use higher levels of ZDDP religiously, after that it logically does not matter near as much as the tappet follower wear out point is covered by the bi-metal inserts.

The cam chain still benefits from extra ZDDP, the list as a whole has not got the chain wear out issue like it used to and I attribute that good thing to the use of Rotella oils.

The need to bump up past the factory Rotella ZDDP levels came about from EPA regulations that dropped the ZDDP levels in all oils, such regs were reversed after a few years, then reinstated then dropped again (slightly).

ZDDP is a very effective wear additive, but unfortunately it kills catalytic converters (which is why ZDDP levels keeps doing the yoyo up and down in car oils, yep it harms car cat converters which are something our bikes have never had on them).
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 11/28/20 at 07:19:31 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
04/19/24 at 01:31:41



General CategoryThe Cafe › Modern oil schooling


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.