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Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to buy? (Read 103 times)
Jdvt600
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Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to buy?
09/20/20 at 10:01:09
 
Disclaimer: I've never done a valve adjustment before but would like to learn and perform it myself. I'm also still reading through the information on the forum.

Now the question. Is there a set of adjusters and feeler gauges that can be ordered which will fit and work directly on our machines out-of-the-box?

In the "how to adjust your valves http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1325991352" post, @verslagen1 mentions "motion pro tappet adjuster" for the exhaust, but that they are "too tall for intake", he then lists some custom tools. Has anyone come across specific tools that just fit and work?

In the same post above, in the "clearance measurement procedure" image, it appears he is using a 'standard' blade type (shape/size) feeler gauge. Am I correct that I can order 'standard' blade feeler gauges to accomplish the job? Should I order angled feeler gauges instead?

Is there anyone in the San Antonio area with expertise that wants to lend a hand?  Grin

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
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Serowbot
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Re: Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to bu
Reply #1 - 09/20/20 at 10:43:07
 
Valve adjustment is pretty easy,.. once you've tackled it that first time.
Make sure you don't confuse mm's with inches... Grin
I have my feeler's custom bent.  
It's pretty obvious where you need to bend them once you're in there.
...and the nice thing is, I don't have to search for the right gauge anymore...
It's the bent one... Grin

Congratulations on expanding your mechanical  repertoire... Cool
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to bu
Reply #2 - 09/20/20 at 12:29:56
 
Just buy a set of feeler gauges and unscrew the thing, pull the appropriate blades out.

Now, don't start bendin and shapin till ya get in there, have a flashlight and magnet handy.
Youll aso want a 90 degree screwdriver, to keep the adjuster from turnin while ya snug the jam nut.

I bend a Z shape and put a bit of a ski tip lookin bend on the end of the blade.

Before ya even start loosenin adjusters, see what rockin the rocker arms feels like, see what feeler gauge will slip in.

Once ya decide to loosen stuff, back the adjuster up enough to slip the feeler gauge in, fingertip bring the adjuster into contact, no tools,,

slip the blade back and forth. It should be able to move, but ya should feel some drag.

Some of them the threads are a bit sloppy and tightening the jam nut opens the adjustment up some,, how persnickety you are about the valve adjustment is up to you. I would see how the blade goes back in, and if it does, will the next bigger one go?

When the tank comes off the speedo cable wil be hangin down and shouldnt be bent to extremes. Have a place prepared to set the tank, allowing the cable to be comfortable and safely out of the way.

Dont lose the oil seal O ring and pay attention to orientation.
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Jdvt600
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Re: Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to bu
Reply #3 - 09/20/20 at 13:10:07
 
Thanks justin_o_guy2 and serowbot. I'll go ahead and pick up the feeler gauges and a 90 degree screwdriver. I also ordered the replacement timing cover (09259-36016-20H). I assume I won't need a replacement o-ring for the timing cover and that I can reuse the oem one.
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Dennisgb
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Re: Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to bu
Reply #4 - 09/20/20 at 13:40:30
 
They are easy to adjust compared to my 4 cylinder sport bikes (16 valves). Takes hours and much contortions on my CBR’s. Lips Sealed Took 10 minutes on the S40. Hardest part is hitting the timing mark.  Grin
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to bu
Reply #5 - 09/20/20 at 13:42:00
 
I assume I won't need a replacement o-ring for the timing cover and that I can reuse the oem one.

Yup..

Be gentle snuggin it up goin back together.. Its easy to get too tight..
When ya get the oring landed, its close to Dunnn,, Just a little bit more,,
If youre thinkin,, Gee,, it feels like it might stay, but Im not sure, so Ill give it Juust a bit more,
Dont
Take a sharpie
\Mark it and the engine, only takes a little mark,, Go ride,, look at it,, keep an eye on it for a few rides, carry the tool,, whatever it takes to Not get it too tight,, because That is a problem.
No one has ever said
Mine fell out..
Several have been ruined trying to get them out.
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Re: Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to bu
Reply #6 - 09/21/20 at 02:37:44
 
Funnily enough I just did my valves yesterday after 20k kms since the last check. The reason I left it so long is that it is a real pain in the neck, literally. As well as a pain in the back which I will explain shortly.

This is the gauge you need to get...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motion-Pro-Tappet-Feeler-Gauge-004-005-10mm-13mm-08-...

I bought two of them because it's reckoned to be a good idea to have one gauge inserted while you adjust the other side. However after breaking my back yesterday I realised that it's not worth the trouble to do that.

While it is easy in theory to do the valves, in practice the actual measuring is very very very frustrating. It's easy to get to the valves themselves, just whip off the tank and remove the valve covers, then the nightmare begins because you everything is in the way, even your own hand gets in the way, bolts get in the way and other feeler gauges get in the way.

In the end I decided it's best to not try and have one gauge inserted while adjusting the other side, just do them one at a time. Now the best way I found is not to have a gauge in and try to tighten it down then remove the gauge, that will reduce you to tears.

I found the best way is to measure the gap, you might want some normal flat gauges to determine the gap if it is out of the range of the motion pro, linked to above. Then with a ring spanner you loosen the lock nut and have a guess as to how much you need to turn the screw, tighten the locknut, then check, then loosen the lock nut, turn the screw, tighten and check and keep doing this till you're happy with one side, then do the other side, then check the first side again. This is actually easier than than trying to do it with a feeler gauge in.

Things to watch out for, when taking the vacuum hose off the carburettor, careful not to drop the little clip and lose it. Also when removing the larger breather hose that goes through the top of the right hand chrome cover, also do not drop the wire clip on the end of that. To remove that you'll need to take off the chrome cover push it to one side then undo the breather hose. You have to be aware that there are two little rubber caps that are attached to the chrome cover underneath, if you are not careful they can fall on the floor and roll away and you'll spend and hour looking for them when you come to assemble.

When you remove the speedo cable at the engine you'll find that it unscrews. Pay careful attention to the small seal because that will fall off and you won't remember which way it goes so make sure you look at that, then cover the end with a plastic bag and seal it with a rubber band so you don't drip grease or lose the seal.

Some people find it difficult to finagle the tank off because the petcock gets in the way a bit, but it's nothing to worry about just make sure when you take the tank off that you pay close attention to how you wiggle the tank so the petcock clears the frame, so you can reverse the procedure later.

Do not forget to plug the electrics back in under the tank before you put the tank back because when you're finished and go to start the bike and nothing happens you'll have to take the tank off again. You only do this once at most.

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Re: Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to bu
Reply #7 - 09/21/20 at 07:41:48
 
@eau de sauvage thank you for the info and writing this up. I'll pay attention to those gotchas.

Here is a really dumb question, is it necessary to drain the oil to do the valve adjustment?
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Re: Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to bu
Reply #8 - 09/21/20 at 08:32:48
 
No need to drain the oil.

Setting valve lash is a feel thing. After you do it you get a feel for it. Having adjusted hundreds of valves it is pretty easy for me. You can tell if set right by how the feeler gauge comes out. If it’s hard to remove you are too tight. It should come out smoothly with slight resistance. If it come out too easy the adjustment is loose. Usually just finger tight and then tighten the lock nut will get you there. You need to hold the adjuster while you tighten the locknut.
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Re: Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to bu
Reply #9 - 09/22/20 at 10:29:46
 
I think I'm doing it wrong.

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What I'm reading from Verslagen1's post (quoted below) is to measure with the feeler prior to loosening the locking nut. If I'm doing this correct (which I am likely not) the gap between my adjustment screw and the valve stem is massive. I assume I need to life the rocker arm a bit and get the feeler gauge in there better.

Quote:
Put the smallest gauge between the bottom of the adjustment screw (e.g. part number "11") and the end of the valve stem (e.g. part number "31"). If it fits, that's okay.  Keep moving up in sizes until they won't fit. See a) through c) for the various cases.  As for actually getting the gauges between the adjustment screw and the valve stem, it can be tricky.  What I recommend: 1st, make sure there is plenty of light.  If you are on the left side of the bike, measure the clearance on the right side while holding the rocker arm up with your other hand (remember there should be little play).  Even if the gauge will fit, it may be tricky to get it in there.  Practice sliding it in and out until you are sure you are measuring the right thing! I had the most success pushing the gauge straight in, but you can get them in from the side.


Please tell me I'm doing this wrong.
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Re: Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to bu
Reply #10 - 09/22/20 at 11:07:19
 
When turning the crankshaft to get to TDC, the top of the crankshaft rotates toward the front tire.

Probably best to pull the plug and rotate the crank, watching intake and exhaust valves, so you know when youre up on Compression, not exhaust.

If the gap is really a lot bigger than you expected, and I dont know the mileage or how many times its been done, dont freak out,, because
The tips of the adjusters on some of them were rather pointed, and they get pounded and dulled, increasing the gap. After aboout the third adjustment on my 05 the gap stopped changing much.

A ratchet can let the engine keep rolling on and pass the TDC youre wanting, dont back up,,
Vise grips on an extension gives you control.
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Re: Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to bu
Reply #11 - 09/22/20 at 12:16:53
 
Jdvt600 wrote on 09/22/20 at 10:29:46:


I'll be your huckleberry... you're doing it wrong.   Huh
I don't know what you're doing wrong cause you haven't told me what you're doing, step by step, nauseously explicit.

1. Rotate the crank counter clockwise... same way the wheels rotate when going forward.
2. Rotate until you see the intake valves go down and come back up.
3. Check the marks on the crank, align them with the mark on the case. Doesn't have to be perfect, touching is great.
4. Quick check by rocking the rocker back and forth, you shouldn't feel much motion. A lot of motion could mean you're on the wrong TDC. If you're sure you're on the right TDC, could mean you got a lot of cam/rocker wear. Check in front at the decomp cam. A lot of wear would cause this cam and the rocker to hit.
5. Adjust the valve lash. stick the feeler in there and bring the adjuster down till it touches. Lock it down and check again. The .004 should just slide in pert near freely while the .005 goes in with some friction.

If you want experience, find someone with a VW and ask them if you can adjust their valves.  It's just like that w/out lying on your back and oil dribbling in your eye.   Huh
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Re: Valve adjusters and Feeler Gauges, which to bu
Reply #12 - 09/22/20 at 12:18:18
 
justin_o_guy1 thank you for the reply. I definitely wasn't getting the blade inserted into the correct spot. I've found the gap and on both intake valves was able to get .006 inserted. I'm beginning the adjustment now. I'm confident that I am at TDC.

Edit: Okay,  thanks to everyone for their help. All four valves are now within tolerance.

Per the original post, if anyone is looking to do this and has very few tools. I was able to knock the job out with about $40 worth of tools. $50 if you want to change the plug and don't have the correct (18 mm) removal tool:

  • 90 degree offset screwdriver ($10) - came in handy to hold the screw in position while loosening the locking nut.
  • Straight blade feeler gauges ($10) from the auto parts store. Angled blades with more support might work better, but you can get the straight blades inserted. This took me forever the first time, but after plenty of persistence they did work.
  • 45 degree offset 10 mm wrench ($20 for a pack at auto parts store) - 3/4 of the valves could be reached with tools on hand, but the left side intake valve was not reachable.

I fabricated a Timing Cover removal tool per the reference/how to post from some scrap 1/16 sheet metal laying around and used a socket to break it loose.
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« Last Edit: 09/22/20 at 18:33:30 by Jdvt600 »  
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