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AMD & others --- Intel dominance in 2022 (Read 9739 times)
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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #45 - 09/29/20 at 09:45:08
 

Intel's pet vendors promise to bring out literally a couple of dozen Tiger Lake laptops "soon" --- while loudly repeating the same list of bogus Intel claims that you now know are false exaggerations.

What is sad is the following hard facts:   if they run the full set of Intel cheats, including the 28 to 60 watt hyper-clocking power draws then the Intel Tiger Lake laptops will get hot, throttle deeply & repeatedly and totally suck on battery life.

The resulting Tiger Lake performance level barely matches the 15 watt setting of the Acer Swift 3 with Ryzen 7 4700U that is on sale at Amazon for $680 .......  no, that price just dropped to $655 as AMD has just told Amazon "We have no chip shortage --- that it was just an Intel generated rumor" so Amazon has quit jacking the prices up due to short supply.

AMD also points out that the same Ryzen 7 4700U chipset can be thermal set by the builder to default to higher current draw numbers giving even greater performance (while still giving better thermals and battery life than Tiger Lake can give at any comparable settings).  

ROG Gaming for example has set their Ryzen 7 4700U gaming rig as high as 31 watts for continuous gaming uses and the AMD Ryzen 7 4700U processors apparently survives this sort of heavy load usage just fine.
ROG does use a type of heavy duty thermal heat pipe solution not usually seen in normal laptops as a gaming rig is intended to run continuously at full tilt for hours on end.
Laptops are thermally limited by their cooling set ups -- always.







The Acer Swift 3 with Ryzen 7 4700U laptop is currently the best selling laptop on Amazon for the last few days running --- and we shall see how long this position of sales dominance lasts.  

Reminder, Tiger Lake still hasn't shipped any real units yet.  Period.

This week the Acer Swift 3 with Ryzen 7 4700U laptop has won the PC Magazine Editor's Choice Award.

Run the slider over to the left or click on the article below to see the Awards this laptop has won in the past week or two.

Please remember that only bulky laptops with full sized desktop chipsets and special coolers can beat this rig, so that is what it is compared against in the article.  

REMEMBER THERE ARE NO REAL TIGER LAKE PRODUCTS TO COMPARE AGAINST ...... and there won't be any Tiger Lakes in any stores until Thanksgiving time.

https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Octa-Core-Graphics-Fingerprint-SF314-42-R9YN/dp/B...

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« Last Edit: 10/05/20 at 09:13:28 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #46 - 09/30/20 at 15:32:42
 

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asus-zenbook-flip-s-ux371

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asus-zenbook-13-11th-gen-tiger-lake

https://www.ultrabookreview.com/41503-asus-zenbook-ux393ea-review/



Here are three links to the seven first reviews of the first released Tiger Lake machines.   You can clearly see which reviewers blindly followed the Intel recommended tests (yielding the expected built in bogus test results) and then there were the more experienced reviewers who did a more credible job of setting up and following "a real competitive review" strategy that showed a much more realistic picture of Tiger Lake.

Really "reality testing" the machines gave results similar to this:


Whereas blindly following the Intel "Recommended Test Procedures" yielded this sort of results:



My take on reading the first reviews was mixed, as we were dealing with some very skilled reviewers who dug in deeply and then we had some relatively shallow depth "beginner" reviewers.   Some reviews just seemed to regurgitate the Intel Press Kit information which really isn't really reviewing anything, really.

All of them saw some signs of  "funny stuff" going on with the Tiger Lake processor's thermal characteristics during heavy use but only one reviewer got into the large amount of heat generated and dumped by his test machine using a heat sensor camera.





One newbie reviewer just listed the Press Kit numbers for battery life and apparently never tested things herself for real to see what sort of life she really got.   Others tested and noted some abnormally short battery life, only one reviewer really dug in and tried to find out why.

I was amazed at how shallow some of the reviews were, and how willing some reviewers were to "stick to the Press Kit" for all their information.

Tongue

To find one of these last sort actually working for Tom's Hardware was a real disappointment, to me anyway.

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« Last Edit: 10/08/20 at 12:57:32 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #47 - 09/30/20 at 15:56:11
 

Here is a comment from a viewer looking over the same results that did, and I get behind his impressions 100%.

Hifihedgehog says:
09/30/2020 at 1:36 PM


This is the tell-all:

“Performance sustainability is not that great as well. When running CineBench R15 xT in a loop, the high initial score of 863 points would drop by as much as 25 percent over time. The Core i7-1065G7 in the Dell XPS 13 7390 2-in-1 would behave almost identically.”

That quote comes straight out of the more flattering NotebookCheck article. All in all, Tiger Lake is Ice Lake with some process efficiency improvements and a much-needed graphics upgrade. Yet even games are a loss. Here again NotebookCheck doesn’t hold back:

“Frame rates when running Witcher 3, DOTA 2, or GTA V are all noticeably slower than the AMD-powered Yoga Slim 7 despite what our 3DMark results above suggest.”

I would bet anything they likely optimized their drivers to the benchmark but not to actual real-world gaming performance.


Tiger Lake is not at all the slam dunk checkmate win over Renoir-based Ryzen 4700 U that Intel’s marketing department made it out to be. If anything, at best, it’s a stalemate, and if you need multicore performance, it’s an out-and-out complete loss.

And with Zen 3 laptops just half a year out, I would strongly discourage anyone from buying Intel 10nm ++ Tiger Lake.
 

Unless you have a specific feature need that is only found on an Intel model of laptop, buy Zen 2/Renoir for right now or simply wait for Zen 3/Cezanne next year.



===================================================



If you chose to blindly believe what Intel says at this stage of the game, then you can easily lose all credibility as a reviewer.

Don't buy Intel 4 core AI trickery based Tiger Lake 10nm ++.   Buy a solid real 8 core AMD Renoir 4700 U instead.   Get the better performance and save all that "wasted on Intel tilted AI lies" money as well.   Buy you a well tested overall winner laptop, such as the current PC Magazine Editor's Choice.

You are the greater part of 6 months away from Intel being able to actually build something actually worthwhile out of Tiger Lake -- and by that time that actually happens an entire new generation of AMD laptop processors will wash it all away like ocean waves hitting a kid's sand castle.  

And please note that chiplet based AM5 socket 5nm 15 layer AMD processors are coming for real inside a year and a half and will be light enough and low watt power draw enough to fit just fine into the laptop space while swinging 12 -16 cores and a real AI co-processor and tons & tons of on-chip memory.  

AMD 5nm chiplet based construction will mean a lower cost compared to the current AMD APU construction methods, plus large supplies of chipsets could be readily assembled from chiplet inventories to meet whatever the demand happens to be this week.  

APU chipsets are really not as flexible as chiplet designs, and APUs are more prone to demand gaps and small shortages type issues.   Plus any flaw in an APU means a scrap chipset, and this cost has to be added in to the price calculations as well.



SHORT TERM AMD NEEDS

Right now AMD needs to get their Renoir 4700U out at their laptop builders with a stock fully supported higher current draw option that is user software selectable.   Such machines will need better cooling to support this particular trick, something like the ROG gaming machine and the XMG machine uses.   Better cooling and a watt draw set up to 31 to 35 watts allows the ROG and the XMG to kick all potential Tiger Lake arses, and that is a fine place for AMD to be right now.

Give the user the user selectable choice of 15 watt level performance, or the choice to speed it all up into ass kicking mode and trash the competition accordingly .....



===================================================



OUT IN THE FUTURE Intel 6nm purchased from TSMC will wind up being Intel's next real chance at doing something to really get back into the game.   3nm AMD timing will be close on this one time-wise, so any Intel 6nm advantage is likely to be only temporary.

Intel 10nm ++  is not really competitive if you back out all the blatant Intel lies and cheating that is currently going on ......    Simply planning to skip Intel 10nm completely might be a good idea, as it has been much delayed by years now and Intel 10nm is going to be "overcome by events" very shortly.

Intel's poor choices in Intel's cheating and lying PR are currently hurting Intel's image badly, and this image damage really does not disappear as quickly as Intel would like to think.


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« Last Edit: 10/17/20 at 00:45:01 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #48 - 10/02/20 at 00:56:39
 

I must reality check myself.  

Intel is back in the game NOW with Tiger Lake, based upon AI cheats and false "innovations" that Intel's many commercial builders have apparently fully bought into and have incorporated just so they can build some new products to sell for this Christmas.

Tiger Lake is going to be the new laptop baseline for Intel and for the laptop industry in general.

I've got to get over this "fake testing" roll out, this massive misleading of the purchasing public.  

It is the new normal.                                ...... for Intel to lie and mislead people, that is ......


===================================================


Intel does honestly say that Tiger Lake is better than any previous Intel 14nm was and this is true.  

10nm ++ Tiger Lake is not any better than AMD 7nm Renoir, it is in fact inferior.   Sitll, AMD has to bring forward a MORE COMPELLING (totally crushing) Tiger Lake beater 7nm Renoir version if AMD wishes to continue to take market share away from Intel's lying misleading marketing machine.  

Compelling enough to break through the big lies Intel has already laid down in people's minds, anyway.

Tiger Lake is going to systemically try to teach laptop folks that very high short term current draws and sub-par battery life are "normal" and AMD also needs to put out a 4700U product that can be set to run up at these much higher hyper-clocking performance levels too, ASAP.

Heavy AI Usage needs to be totally planned for by AMD, as you can see that heavy AI usage is coming on clearly in a very big way as Intel DEPENDS upon it for so very very much starting right now .....
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« Last Edit: 10/05/20 at 01:03:37 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #49 - 10/02/20 at 08:09:28
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x8SAAk_J4c     it is a video, click on it   ----  takes some time but it is worth it


FIRST EVER XMG SAME-SAME LAPTOP REVIEW SET


Everything I have said before rings out clearly in this detailed video review --- the reviewer points out that most Intel units are carefully tuned to suit the Intel Tiger Lake processor and the AMD units clearly didn't get the same level of attention paid to them or are just put together and are not optimized at all.

The vendor in question here, XMG, has carefully optimized both identical battery and aluminum chassis heat pipe based units and softwares, separately, to give very best performance across all tests that is possible for each brand.   XMG uses the same sort of heat pipe system on both brands and both can run a very similar continuous watts draw which is quite similar to the ROG gaming unit that we mentioned earlier.

The AMD unit consistently kicks Tiger Lake unit's arse by 17% to 54% performance-wise depending on the item being tested.  

AMD does not get as hot nor does it drink nearly as much battery power.   As such it completes tasks quicker and gets more done in the same amount of time.

NOTE   All tests were run off an unplugged fully charged up battery.

SOME INTEL TIGER LAKE TESTS DID NOT FINISH THE TEST AT ALL AS TIGER LAKE DRANK THE ENTIRE 46 WATT-HOUR BATTERY COMPLETELY DRY BEFORE FINISHING THE TEST, WHILE THE AMD UNIT ALWAYS FINISHED THE TEST WITH OVER 25% OF THE BATTERY LIFE STILL REMAINING.  

And the AMD unit got it all done quicker in all cases, too.

This is the level of review I would think all reviews and reviewers should be doing ...... but sadly this is not the case.


I hope all the bogus lazy slack reviewers are being very well paid by Intel, as they are selling off their reputations as reviewers permanently as we speak.



===================================================



Some laptop makers are equally lazy and slack and just did what they have always done when making up the new Tiger Lake laptops, used the same size batteries, etc. etc.

They are now learning exactly WHY Intel recommended that the battery in the laptop be a larger 61 watt-hour battery.   Most batteries are not that large, BTW, most are 46-54 watt-hour batteries that work great with normal laptops that are set to pull a 15 watt total draw (as used to be the industry standard).

Unless they put in the larger 61 watt-hour battery, they can expect that Tiger Lake will suck their battery dry inside two hours of heavy use.   (less if something you do kicks off hyper-clocking repeatedly)

Plugging the charger in all the time helps some, if you go with Tiger Lake you will have to make this a firm habit.

College students who take their Tiger Lake laptops to class with them will struggle to to sit next to a wall socket in the older classrooms that exist on most college campuses.

They will likely have to go on line to learn how to turn off the Tiger Lake hyper-clocking feature as that trick will really suck down their standard laptop battery in jig time ......

I think a lot of normal people will be returning Tiger Lake units to Amazon as defective because of this "defect".   When they fill out the Amazon return, they will say "won't keep a charge" or "charge only lasts 2-3 hours".
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« Last Edit: 10/05/20 at 19:42:15 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #50 - 10/02/20 at 11:32:16
 

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/d/deals/clearance-sale?sort=sortBy&currentResult...

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/d/deals/doorbusters?sort=sortBy&currentResultsLa...

The Handwriting is up on the Wall

Simultaneously to the AMD APUs coming out in force and taking all the Editor's Choice awards, Lenovo has begun a 40-60% off INTEL clearance sale and a separate 30% off general INTEL sale intended to sweep the obsoleted Intel based units out of their warehouse stock shelves worldwide ......  all the moldy old Intel stuff will be gone by New Years Day.

I suspect older Intel products everywhere will star in Black Friday ads all over the world.

Roll Eyes

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops-and-all-in-ones/thinkcentre/m-nano-seri...



===================================================



Keeping good balance in mind, you also have to realize that this intentional sell off of the old Intel products also makes more room for Tiger Lake to move into replace them.

WARNING:     The Intel PR machine is still claiming that Tiger Lake naturally INCREASES battery life, something we all know now is false.
Hyper-clocking crashes battery life, certainly not acting to help it in any way at all.

Next, the Intel PR machine is claiming that heavy AI usage is "only a small part" of their Tiger Lake implementation, not as the absolute hinge pin of all their bogus "better than AMD" speed claims.

Lastly, hyper-clocking (running 58-62 watt power draws for short periods of time) gets ZERO mention from the Intel PR machine or from any of their tame builders in any of their literature or verbal claims.   And we now know that, by default, every Tiger Lake chipset system automatically hyper-clocks when given any load that goes up all the way ......

It is very much like the PC laptop sales machine wants to peddle us this stuff willy-nilly.   They are trying to force you to buy it by keeping mum about all the downsides and actively promoting all the BS Intel claims that we all know are STONE FALSE.

Concerted attempts are also being made by Intel to intentionally derail the momentum of the vastly superior eight core 16 thread AMD Ryzen 4700U during this initial Tiger Lake sell-in period.  These efforts have included a widely dispersed rumor that AMD is having chip supply problems.   AMD denies this rumor, and so far we see there has been a marked lessening of the B/O periods showing at Amazon but some delays are still showing on some models where the laptop builders simply did not make enough units to fill the abrupt AMD demand.

It is very important for Intel to get a lot of Tiger Lake sold right now QUICKLY, before the battery life issues and overheating issues on Tiger Lake initial units become widely known off the initial shipment of real Tiger Lake units to the purchasing public.

Tiger Lake units (especially those sold with less than 60 watt hour batteries) will be prone to dying too soon due to the high current draws associated with Tiger Lake's built-in hyper-clocking functions.



==================================================



https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/e7stwb/intels_false_and_deceitful_marke...       Someone else sees these same things from Intel's BS Marketing ......



===================================================




https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Octa-Core-Graphics-Fingerprint-SF314-42-R9YN/dp/B...

Intel's bogus Ryzen 7 4700U chip shortage rumor dries up and blows away .......  Amazon can direct drop ship and deliver one at your house by Monday Oct 5.  

That is 2 day delivery, boys and girls on an item Intel says AMD doesn't even have ........


Roll Eyes


...... what part of the INTEL fraudulent black bag methodologies do you need me to explain to you again ????  

Let's see, you want a good current example of Intel black bag tricks to illustrate how Intel works now-a-days....... that head of Intel development's post on the avocado toast discussion site that gently mentioning the proposed 8 core 16 thread Tiger Lake chipset that was supposed to be coming --- that post was DELETED yesterday, so that wasn't real either, just another Intel BS black bag trick  .......


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« Last Edit: 10/07/20 at 19:54:30 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #51 - 10/05/20 at 03:06:32
 

Boyd Phelps, Intel's Corporate Vice President of Client Computing Group  --  has completely pulled his sneaky avocado toast post and replaced it with this carefully stated missive.  

 https://medium.com/intel-tech/11th-gen-intel-core-processors-new-architectura...    

Boyd Phelps has also apparently added a new disclaimer thing to all of his formal Intel informational posts in an effort to combat some of the "lying BS" charges that have been laid out against Intel lately.  

Actually, this disclaimer FUNCTIONALLY CONFIRMS all of the charges that it is intended to deflect, that Intel has indeed done these things and fully intends to do them out in the future as well.

It also boldly asserts that Intel has an ongoing right to continue to give out bogus rankings and testing results and to provide this false information to their builders to pass on to the public whenever the heck they want to ......   and I do believe the EU regulators will disagree with this dubious Intel position.


Roll Eyes  


Numerous individuals have already logged complaints in the EU against Intel for this active misleading false advertising campaign on Tiger Lake.

Rumor has it that the EU is squaring off to whomp Intel with some very large fines over this sort of false advertising nonsense --- and mebbe Intel is trying for some "broad coverage butt protection" here based upon this funky disclaimer.


Notices & Disclaimers

Software and workloads used in performance tests may have been optimized for performance only on Intel microprocessors.

Performance tests, such as SYSmark and MobileMark, are measured using specific computer systems, components, software, operations and functions. Any change to any of those factors may cause the results to vary.

You should consult other information and performance tests to assist you in fully evaluating your contemplated purchases, including the performance of that product when combined with other products.

Performance results are based on testing as of dates shown in configurations and may not reflect all publicly available ​updates.

No product or component can be absolutely secure.

Your costs and results may vary. Intel technologies may require enabled hardware, software or service activation.

© Intel Corporation. Intel, the Intel logo, and other Intel marks are trademarks of Intel Corporation or its subsidiaries. Other names and brands may be claimed as the property of others.




"Your costs and results may vary.  Intel technologies may require enabled hardware, software or service activation."

Boyd, are you saying that unless we pay you service money and let you into our stuff at night so you can fiddle with it, that you are now saying it won't work optimally in the long run?

Or, are you saying that unless we provide rapid internet access to all the tweeked Intel background libraries, the ones that all your dirty AI speed up tricks depend upon, that the dirty AI tricks won't work right out in the future and the "performance" you promised us to get us to buy your Tiger Lake garbage simply won't be there when we need it?

Which is it Boyd?   Pick one ......    (or both if both apply)


Tongue


Intel really sux, sorry, Intel just sucks brown slimy ditchwater compared to AMD .....    

To have to write a DISCLAIMER like this for your news stories means you ADMIT you have been lying out your ass to the public this whole durn time ......


Tongue      Tongue     Tongue     Tongue


Shocked    No product or component can be absolutely secure.     Undecided  

Boyd, folks haven't stumbled over the exact issue that prompted you to add this one to the disclaimers listing, but we are all keeping an eye out for it now since you clued us all about it ......



Grin     Software and workloads used in performance tests may have been optimized for performance only on Intel microprocessors.      Grin

This one all by itself has been worth a 10 Million Euro EU fine against Intel in decades past, but seeing all the rest of them all lined up in a row and knowing several of these are third strikes against Intel  means the EU fines may be 10x bigger this time around.


If I were an Intel builder that has been advertising using these known to be false claims,  I'd be afraid that I might be found to be co-defender with Intel under current EU rules.

I would then have to prove in an EU court that Intel had lied to me too, actively deceiving me into transmitting their lies in order to recover the money that I was fined by the EU, getting it in the end from Intel by a separate lawsuit.

Fun, huh?
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« Last Edit: 10/11/20 at 14:28:34 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #52 - 10/06/20 at 06:26:41
 

Watch out when people make comparisons to AMD 4000 processors.

The PC MAGAZINE EDITOR'S CHOICE machine is the Ryzen 4700U not the older Ryzen 4800U that does not have two threads per core, and that older 4800U is simply slower in all aspects of I/O and memory, etc. etc. etc.

Look here to see what all the differences are.

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-amd_ryzen_7_4700u-1093-vs-amd_ryzen...

I find that a lot of review houses don't even have a modern Ryzen 4700U on hand to test Tiger Lake against --- so they report against some two year old AMD laptop that they do have because they are simply slack and lazy.

Yep, on the Intel side they tend to use the Intel Company Owned Tiger Lake Sample Laptop, or else they just copy info from their competition's review or from the Tiger Lake Press Kit itself.

This whole thing is a hairball, with Intel provided tilted misinformation resting down at the bottom of it.



===================================================



https://liliputing.com/2020/10/11th-gen-intel-rocket-lake-chips-coming-to-des...

Intel's queasy marketing methods are continuing, as they are prepping a set of desktop chipsets to follow in this same very dubious marketking pattern.

Issue with desktops is that there is NO CLOSE PARITY IN DESKTOP CHIPSETS and AMD has already crushed Intel's best and everybody knows it.

Plus, trying to tweek desktops with AI enough to make up lost ground will be Tough To Do as you are trying to recover a 2x advantage in a lot of areas.

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« Last Edit: 10/07/20 at 09:32:16 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #53 - 10/07/20 at 19:44:03
 

https://liliputing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/arm-makalu-768x368.jpgl



ARM is planning to roll up to 64 bit on all cores by the time 5nm is rolled out completely inside of 2 years from now.  

This is not "new" news and any vendor that gets left stuck on 32 bit code by then has been on vacation for 5 years already.

And yes, ARM is once again waving a "massive simplification" in the "Big / LITTLE" coding of such unified 64 bit critters, and ARM is also saying there will be a 30% "coding performance upper" to be had overall on top of the lithography bump that comes from 5nm ......    

Raw code size will go down too, and AI will become easier to implement.
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« Last Edit: 10/08/20 at 12:12:47 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #54 - 10/08/20 at 11:43:35
 

https://liliputing.com/2020/10/amd-zen-3-desktop-chips-coming-nov-5-for-299-a...

Intel, I warned you not to go piss off Lisa Su ---
You won't like her when she's mad  .......


"....... I'll  rip off your last crown and take your head clean off with it.  I'll stuff it in a box along with a fresh steaming example of Intel Marketing dumped all over it ....."



Intel’s 11th-gen “Rocket Lake S” desktop processors may be coming early next year.
But rival AMD’s newest desktop chips are coming next month on Nov. 5th.

AMD has unveiled four new Ryzen 5000 series desktop processors with prices ranging from $299 to $799 and the promise of major improvements in single-core performance, multi-threaded performance, and energy efficiency.

The new chips are also the first CPUs to feature the company’s new Zen 3 CPU core architecture.


Here’s a preview of the launch lineup:

Cores / Threads      Base / Boost freq      Cache      TDP      Price
Ryzen 5 5600X      6 / 12      3.7 GHz / 4.6 GHz      35MB      65W      $299
Ryzen 7 5800X      8 / 16      3.8 GHz / 4.7 GHz      36MB      105W      $449
Ryzen 9 5900X      12 / 24      3.7 GHz / 4.8 GHz      70MB      105W      $549
Ryzen 9 5950X      16 / 32      Up to 4.9 GHz Boost      72MB      105W      $799


The new chips are 7nm processors with a new core layout for better communication between cores, reduced memory latency for gaming, and a 19-percent boost in instructions per clock as well as up to a 24-percent improvement in energy efficiency for up to a 24-percent boost in performance per watt when compared with the Ryzen 3000 line of desktop processors.





Up until recently, AMD’s desktop chips have held the lead in multi-threaded CPU performance while Intel processors had an edge in single-core performance. But AMD says it’s improved its single-core performance enough that its Ryzen 9 5900X processor can get a single-threaded score of 631 in Cinebench, while the Ryzen 9 5950X can snag a score of 640.

That would indeed put them at the top of the charts. But for now we’ve only got AMD’s word to go on. We won’t have long to wait for independent testing though, with the chips set to hit the streets in less than a month.



A Ryzen core complex used to be made up of sets or groups of 4 cores per set.   Now it is laid out in tighter groups or sets of 8 cores and the new 8 core set has inherent 19% better IPC and 24% better energy efficiency.  

This means roughly around 30% higher clock rates should be available before serious overheating occurs.   Better coolers could stretch this even further ......

The center core swings more memory layers, plans for a separate AI layer and FAR BETTER ON-CHIP GRAPHICS (if provided -- the largest core count units will lack a on-board GPU since they are intended for gamers who always want separate very high performance video cards).


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« Last Edit: 10/10/20 at 08:49:05 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #55 - 10/08/20 at 21:34:13
 

Confirmation and "deep dives" into real detail levels ........

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16148/amd-ryzen-5000-and-zen-3-on-nov-5th-19-i...

https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/8/21506447/amd-zen-3-ryzen-5000-processors-g...

https://www.cnet.com/news/amd-unveils-ryzen-9-5950x-gaming-pc-cpu-with-16-cor...

Read the Anandtech article, it is the best of the lot.  

More info will be released next month when the chipsets ship, mostly having to do with clock speeds and thermal setups I would think.


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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #56 - 10/09/20 at 09:44:26
 

Busy day for AMD ......

https://www.edn.com/why-amd-is-acquiring-the-fpga-powerhouse-xilinx/





Why XILINX??    Re-programmable fast automotive chipsets and AI ACCELERATORS.  Xilinx is the best in this field by far.  And, please remember so far this tech has not blended in with PC tech completely (yet).   AI has just started to show up in testing fudged by Intel and the only applications that uses AI routinely is graphics (example, while resizing images).

I see Xilinx tech as a well integrated separate layer inside each AMD multi-layer chipset, eventually, blended in seamlessly as a common L3 cached CPU/GPU/AI Accelerator.    Re-programmable over the internet, no less.   On-going net optimized accelerator code sounds really really neat to me.

I see progress happening ......  lots and lots of it at the 5nm 14 layer lithography level.

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« Last Edit: 10/10/20 at 08:50:08 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #57 - 10/09/20 at 23:59:07
 

So far I have watched response videos from 3 good major review houses for the upcoming Ryzen 5000.

In all cases, they say the same thing.   "AMD generally does what they say they will do, legitimately".

They all say the same thing "AMD said to wait for the Ryzen 5000 chips to land at retail November 5th, then pick one from the flow, test them for real and report what you see."  

This is very very different from the current Intel Marketing BS methodologies which depend on tweeked hyper-clocked Intel owned test units, hidden driver libraries, intentional unit delays and lots & lots of AI trickery.  

Oh, let's not forget the nice long Intel DISCLAIMER LISTING ......     Tongue

All the review houses have both old and new AMD motherboards on hand (as this new chip supposedly plugs in to either sort and runs, but runs best on the most modern boards).

We are being told now that the upgradable organization ideas of the current AMD motherboards and sockets and chiplet groupings will carry over into the new AM5 socket for 5nm lithography that is coming next year which will have over 5 mhz speeds natural to it, combined with the wide data paths, the current large IPC uplifts and all the latest AMD neat stuff will be carrying over into 5nm lithography.

Or, it may be more accurate to say the newest organizational ideas started in the AM5 socket 5nm lithography product and are backflushing into the current Ryzen 5000 7nm product at this time.

We are told by each of the pundits that Intel is likely toast in both content creation and in gaming now and Intel will likely remain toast going forward, and Intel will not recover any crowns, ever, no matter what shady tricks they pull with bogus AI testing tricks and other Intel dirty black bag tricks.  

The gap for Intel to make up is currently around 30-40% and that is literally too much of a performance gap to lie your way through.


Shocked


Pricing has flipped, Intel is now less desirable and commands lesser price points compared to AMD.
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« Last Edit: 10/11/20 at 20:21:46 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #58 - 10/10/20 at 22:39:46
 

Folks are fact checking chip sales positions using Amazon as the data source.


Price Options
[#] is Amazon Best-Seller Position

#             AMD Pt #         Price
[1]      Ryzen 5 3600         $205
[2]      Ryzen 7 3700XT    $295
[3]      Ryzen 5 3600X      $209
[4]      Ryzen 5 2600        $149
[5]      Ryzen 9 3900X      $430
[6]      Ryzen 7 3800XT    $340
[7]      Ryzen 5 3600XT    $230
[8]      Ryzen 7 2700X      $218
[9]      Ryzen 3 3200G      $100


We shall see how this all shifts out when the newer chips land and the first reviews come out.
And no, you are not completely nuts, there is no Intel on the current Amazon customer top 10 wish list.



=========    A Big Big difference exists between individual chipset sales and entire built up unit sales.



Intel in fact is still selling a whole lot of chipsets to brand name unit builders as they will keep building the existing model line filled with Intel products until model change time comes around.  

Major builders seem to need Intel's slower pace of improvements as they do a model change per year and a cosmetic change or two inside of a year and that is all the change they are structured to handle.  

Next, the computer industry as a whole cannot flush out all these new models fast enough to keep up with AMD's change rate.   Inventory is accustomed to lasting 1-2 years in the sales channels before going obsolete.

The phone industry is closer to what AMD requires, rapid multiple unit types designed and built very quickly and flushed just as quickly.  

AMD is currently overstressing the complete computer box builder's rapid response capacity right now.

It is good that AMD keeps a consistent socket for multiple years as this gives builders some chance to keep the same computer guts for 2 years running and just plug in the new AMD chipset and BIOS for each wave of new.

AMD improves too rapidly.  AMD has complete model build needs that are too erratic and too fast acting, especially if they hit gold on a unit and the box builder hasn't got the capacity to even start to meet that unit demand before the next change wave rolls up.

The computer industry is building lots of finished boxes that folks simply don't want right now  as they slavishly follow the old Intel build patterns from years past.



==================================================



Woot is going to have to take a WHOLE LOT of virgin boxed units to sell this Christmas over this huge "build lag" issue ........

Look to see Amazon using Woot and "Warehouse Specials" a lot this Christmas.
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« Last Edit: 10/15/20 at 22:46:46 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #59 - 10/15/20 at 09:27:38
 

https://liliputing.com/2020/10/chromebook-lifespans-creeping-upward-some-mode...




Chromebook lifespans creeping upward

These Chromebooks are some of the first to feature AMD Ryzen processors, and both models were launched in September of 2020, which means they’ll be supported for more than 8.5 years.

Chromebooks cost a good bit less than Windows machines (by and large).   A good Chromebook can run ChromeOS, Linux, Android and (using CrossOver Chromebook) it can run MS Office as well.

Also note that all Chromebooks can run Libre Office as is, and that means they can open any generation of MS Word files, change it and then put it back the way it found it.
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« Last Edit: 10/15/20 at 22:41:38 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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