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AMD & others --- Intel dominance in 2022 (Read 9739 times)
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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #30 - 09/13/20 at 20:41:19
 

https://liliputing.com/2020/09/nvidia-is-buying-arm-for-40-billion.html

Four years after buying Arm Holdings for $32 billion, Softbank is selling Arm to NVIDIA for $40 billion. It’s the most expensive deal in the semiconductor space to date, and it would put NVIDIA in control of the technology that powers most of the world’s smartphones and a growing number of other devices.

The companies say it will likely take about a year and a half for the acquisition to be completed, because, among other things, it will need to be approved by regulators in the UK, US, China, and the European Union.

It’ll be interesting to see what those regulators have to say. Technically Arm and NVIDIA are not direct competitors, since Arm licenses chip designs, but does not make its own processors, while NVIDIA designs and produces its own chips. But if the deal goes through, NVIDIA will be both competing with chip companies like Qualcomm, and licensing its designs to them.

And if the deal does pass muster with regulators, will chip makers that are currently licensing Arm designs decide to look elsewhere?


So far pundits say that under Nvidia's control ARM will either become very very pushy in PC and in mainframe space or else they will see major customers defect to RISC-V because they don't want to play in Nvidia space under ever changing rules set by Jen-Hsun "Jensen" Huang.

Odds of final regulator approval by every regulating body of the deal is less than 50% right now according to industry pundits ......

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« Last Edit: 09/15/20 at 07:00:50 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #31 - 09/15/20 at 07:07:14
 

https://www.idgconnect.com/news/1506091/intel-coyly-revealed-core-tiger-lake-...



This is not a small laptop processor, Intel Boyd Phelps you little sneaky poo, you ......   this thing is HUGE.   That silver edged huge thing held down by 3 screws is actually a processor sub-mother board that holds your Intel Processor daughter board and the 21 additional I/Cs (plus hundreds of other components) and all of the cache memory chips and I/O functions that AMD puts in their chipset itself (by doing so means AMD is simply not requiring much of the additional I/Cs and the other minor pieces of silicon).

Can you say "Wow, what a huge oversized EXPENSIVE abortion"?    Takes a lot of room, doesn't it?

Just look at all of it ----- and realize that AMD puts all of that on top of the CPU die as an integral part of the processor using the four additional etch layers that ASML lithography equipment can currently lay down at 7nm.    

And next year at 5nm AMD's new AM5 socket will hold brand new 5nm chipsets with up to 14 additional interconnected layers laid on top of the primary silicon.


I betcha Intel tries to claim this abortion is an "upgradeable processor board" and tries to announce it as another "industry first" in laptop space --- until someone reminds them that simply changing out an a AMD multi-level processor on its AM4 socket accomplishes the same thing at far far lower cost.


BUSINESS MANAGEMENT

Intel coyly revealed an 8-core Tiger Lake CPU to fight AMD's Ryzen 4000
Posted by Gordon Mah Ungon September 13 2020

Intel has quietly confirmed that it will do an 8-core version of its 11th-gen Tiger Lake chip.

In a September 3 blog post on Medium noticed by Tom’s Hardware, Intel’s Boyd Phelps confirmed that in addition to the quad-core 11th-gen CPUs due in October, the company will also push out an 8-core variant.

“The Willow Cove core increases the mid-level cache to 1.25MB—up from 512KB,” Phelps wrote, on the site usually associated with 12,000-word essays on avocado toast. “We also added a 3MB non-inclusive last-level-cache (LLC) per core slice. A single core workload has access to 12MB of LLC in the 4-core die or up to 24MB in the 8-core die configuration (more detail on 8-core products at a later date).”

Intel has so far only confirmed quad-core versions using what it now calls “UP3” and “UP4” designations. How the 8-core version shakes out isn’t known. Based on the deluge of Tiger Lake laptops pushed out two weeks ago, we think the approach could be similar to AMD's.


The "the deluge of Tiger Lake laptops pushed out two weeks ago" has been postponed until October/November due to unspecified delivery issues.

The months long delays imposed on the first actual competitive laptops and this somewhat rushed new product announcement tends to indicate the "TOTAL VICTORY" of Intel's Tiger Lake was really somewhat less than total.

If four Tiger Lake cores had overheating and battery draining problems, what do you think 8 Tiger Lake cores will do?

Soon, we shall see .......

The total back handedness of this announcement is what is so striking about it.  

Intel’s Boyd Phelps confirmed that in addition to the quad-core 11th-gen CPUs due in October, the company will also push out an 8-core variant.

“The Willow Cove core increases the mid-level cache to 1.25MB—up from 512KB,” Phelps wrote, on the site usually associated with 12,000-word essays on avocado toast. “We also added a 3MB non-inclusive last-level-cache (LLC) per core slice. A single core workload has access to 12MB of LLC in the 4-core die or up to 24MB in the 8-core die configuration (more detail on 8-core products at a later date).”


How else can Intel admit that the BS they announced at first was simply "dribbling down their chins" PR BS ...... but hey, let's jest sneak the corrections in where the avocado toast 12,000 word essays normally go.

Now, Intel,  how do you go about RETRACTING all that "core count equivalency" BS that you frothed out about during your main Tiger Lake introduction ?????   You would only compare Tiger Lake to much older AMD stuff that had only four cores in it, remember?

Or, is this Intel's way of finally admitting they really don't currently REALLY HAVE a competitive product to sell?


Tongue          Duh, Intel .....  and who is copying who now again ?????   Level 4 cache copied, large bulk systems memory copied, total core counts copied, hey they say you copied other things as well but that has not been verified at this point.


So, how do you think Intel will do against the newer AMD products that will have come out by the time you can limp out your physically HUGE overly expensive 8 core thermal killers?

Undecided

You do know that you have really pissed off all the real reviewers out there, and you also pissed off Lisa Su as well with all your baseless assertions?  

Given your slow reaction time, I think everybody will be all ready for you when you finally send something out for them to get their hot little hands on ......
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« Last Edit: 09/16/20 at 06:52:31 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #32 - 09/15/20 at 14:12:09
 

https://liliputing.com/2020/09/sifive-plans-to-unveil-the-first-risc-v-pc-in-...

https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/09/15/sifive-to-debut-risc-v-pc-for-develop...





A company called SiFive has been producing RISC-V chips for the past few years, and now the company has announced plans to introduce the “world’s first RISC-V PC” during the Linley Group Fall Virtual Processor Conference at the end of October.

Aimed at developers rather than end users, the idea is to give people a computer that they can use to code software for RISC-V powered devices while using a RISC-V device.

At its heart, the upcoming computer will feature a SiFive FU740 processor, which is a new system-on-a-chip featuring a “heterogeneous mix+match core complex” with SiFive U7-series CPU cores, as well as support for PC form factors and expansion capabilities.

SiFive says it also plans to introduce a new processor core optimized for “high-performance computing, artificial intelligence, and computer vision applications.” Interestingly, those are exactly the same sort of applications NVIDIA highlighted as a key reason that the company is purchasing ARM.


Roll Eyes       I think ARM is under some very early light small arms fire by this one, which may be one of the reasons why Softbank was willing to sell ARM off to Nvidia  .......


Hey Intel, a little gift for you is coming this fall about the same time you finally ship some Tiger Lake laptops ...... yet another up and coming competitor for both you and ARM and Nvidia is now taking its very first PC baby steps.  

Note please Intel, that the entire HiFive motherboard is a whole lot smaller than the Tiger Lake processor sub-board on the Tiger Lake thingie that you just announced.   And I also note existing unused layout positions on the HiFive board for 5 more memory modules that are already tracer wired into the board itself .......  

Got plans, HiFive does.    This is the processor layout for a 9 core RISC-5 processor, which would be the VERY LEAST of the PC capable RISC-5 processors HiFive is building next year.





==================================================



This upcoming PC is not intended for consumers to use as a PC per se ---- it is a test bench for Linux programmers to use while writing Risc-V code as debugging freshly written code is always best done native to the environment you are coding for.    

As long as standards are maintained, if it runs after debugging during development it will run in consumer use across the board.



==================================================



MIPS has just been bought again by the Chinese --- I bet they wish they had kept it the first time they bought it as they paid more for it this time around.

Why buy it back?   Code and hardware tricks that you steal from ARM can be tweeked to run on MIPS and by this "backhanded excuse" Chinese phones and PCs can stay relatively more current technologically during the Trump embargos.

And nobody wants to be 100% under Jensen Huang's thumb when the ARM deal closes .....

My theory is that China actually kept the tech even after selling it as their military uses MIPS based mil-spec machines built specifically for them in a Chinese MIPS production facility (using stolen Los Alamos labs EMP hardened MIPS design tech from the '60s).  

Now China has a legal right to what they stole in the past.

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« Last Edit: 09/16/20 at 14:27:30 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #33 - 09/16/20 at 10:01:33
 

https://liliputing.com/2020/09/intel-quietly-launches-two-new-comet-lake-h-pr...



Intel quietly launches two new Comet Lake-H processors as backup for delayed 10nm launches.

When Intel launched its Comet Lake H family of 45-watt chips for laptops and compact desktop computers in April, there were six processors in the lineup.

Now there are nine.

A little while back, Intel added the Core i9-10885H, and this week Intel quietly added two new Comet Lake-H processors to its website, and according to a recent Reddit post from the makers of the XMG line of gaming laptops, the reason may be due to supply issues with some of Intel’s other chips.

Root behind this issuance of old 14nm designs is the much delayed 10nm ++ generation chipsets and also delays making the H series 14nm chipsets that were supposed to back up the 10nm ++ products.  Delays in Tiger Lake also play into this decision to reissue old 14nm designs.

Apparently Intel is having trouble cranking out enough Core i7-10875H processors, so the company has decided to produce a slightly less powerful Core i7-10870H to help meet demand. It’s base and turbo clock speeds are 100 MHz lower, but otherwise it’s pretty much the same 8-core, 16-thread chip with 1.2 GHz Intel UHD graphics, 16MB of cache, and support for up to 128GB of DDR4-2933 memory.
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« Last Edit: 09/16/20 at 16:33:00 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #34 - 09/16/20 at 10:14:43
 

Rumor Time again.

It is rumored that Intel now has to pay up front now for any production runs at TSMC or at Samsung.   The rumored reason is that the Intel designs don't always work as contracted to be built, and nobody else is interested in holding the bag for a failed Intel production run yet again.  

And it is rumored that Intel likes to stick their partners (Micron for example) for the dead warehouse stock from their own Intel goof ups if they can.    

And is it rumored that just now that a run or two of Tiger Lake has just bit the dust due to inherent design issues (it was developed at Samsung and then was actually run at TSMC because it was cheaper --- and Intel lost track of the process differences at the two foundries)

Veracity of this rumor is unknown but this one should become apparent as real or not by Christmas time.


===================================================


Another thing that is rumored to have happened whenever Intel hits a road bump with a new processor ......

Some of their builder/partners will have early advertised units with the new lithography processor well in advance and have taken lots of orders for that unit.   Intel cannot deliver and falls back on a alternate processor that isn't quite as good.   If the builder wants to build his units (for Christmas just to grab an example out of the air) he has to take the alternate lot of Intel processors or accept a sort level that is way short of the original specifications .......

The builder then has to push the replacement processor built units out the door on to the end seller (generally a retailer chain of some sort) as a modified part number with a letter tagged on to the end of the part number.   In turn the retailer has to have a reduced price sale to move out the substandard units (during which he conveniently sometimes loses track of reporting the substandard build characteristics to everybody involved) and it gets out into the public channels as the original advertised product and is touted by somebody's out of the loop sales department as "meeting the original specs".      

Shocked

With Intel, this is rumored to have happened ...... distressingly fairly regularly whenever Intel has to use a series of backup processors to make their ship commitments on time.


===================================================


Whenever you see Intel suddenly widening up the performance range of a new chipset (as they just did with 10nm ++ Tiger Lake) you can kinda count on another confused mess is coming on down the pike.  

Especially if SORTING and BINNING gets mentioned in passing ......

Especially if Intel is suddenly all of the opinion that the performance of the new Tiger Lake 10nm ++  thingie "cannot be determined by existing benchmarks".    Shocked

Tongue           (sound familiar to you at all?)

Then when the backup 14nm chipset for the 10nm ++ that is having the problems gets an older 14nm backup suddenly pulled out of warehouse mothball stock (a less capable, older chipset) as its very own special backup due to simply not being able to make or deliver enough of first backup chipset ---- well then you can suspect multiple entire series of lots of chipsets are perhaps involved in subtitutions about now and it is perhaps rumored that a right snarly mess of some size has taken place that is being kept a secret by Intel and Intel's builders just so they can have something to sell this Christmas.


Roll Eyes      hmmmmm ??    Unsubstantiated rumors .........  don't you jest love them?    They compound on each other and dovetail together so nicely.   What imaginations these rumor people must have to think Intel would actually do such shenanigans .....
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« Last Edit: 09/29/20 at 01:08:31 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #35 - 09/17/20 at 08:56:38
 

https://liliputing.com/2020/09/3rd-party-intel-tiger-lake-tests-suggest-big-p...




Intel is really stumbling over their lack of shipment of real normal channel production based competitive Tiger Lake laptops -- and Intel is now making an effort to CUSTOM SUPPLY a laptop to AnandTech, Engadget, Gizmodo, PC Magazine, The Verge, and Tom’s Hardware --- this custom unit is a reference design laptop that is provided by Intel that is NON-STANDARD in several ways.

First, this is not an actual product you can go out and buy.  It likely has a cherry picked processor and faster than normal memory installed in it.

Second, The reference unit likely has a cherry picked CPU out of Intel’s best runs of the most powerful 11th-gen chip – the Intel Core i7-1185G7. It’s unclear if we’ll see the same kind of performance improvements from a standard run of the mill chipset of the same model and type from Intel or from TSMC ---- much less a run of the mill Core i3, Core i5, or even other Core i7 chips in the real upcoming Tiger Lake family.

Finally, this likely "cherry picked chip" has a configurable TDP, allowing it to run at 12 to 28 watts "by direction". Ice Lake chips only go up to 25 watts, and most laptops with this processor are shipped with a 15W configuration to maximize battery life. AMD’s Ryzen 4000 series notebooks also top out at 25 watts and, again, many laptops that ship with these chips are configured to run at 15 watts to maximize battery life.

The Intel reference unit is loaded up with all sorts of AI software speedups, that will automatically play in all the testing done on this machine.  The reference unit also does not seem to throttle very much as noted during initial limited testing, which is not normal at all for a laptop as the processor heats the chassis up.

This "special effort" by Intel comes across as a whole new layer of attempted PR manipulation and most of the test houses simply state their intention to wait for a real test unit that they buy out of the normal retail chain to base their tests results upon.

One of the group states they intend to do the tests with the machine that they buy, then they intend to replace and format the hard drive of their purchased machine and install an older version of Windows Pro that has no AI enhancements in it (nor would it be able to ask the internet to download any of such) as they are curious how much of Intel's progress is AI manipulation vs real performance increases (real progress).

Plus their own purchased laptop can be equipped with thermocouples and recording watt meters to see if any 80 watt limited time hyperclocking takes place during any of the tests as they are being run.

Nobody trusts Intel not to cheat any more --- it is too important to Intel that Intel get a win with Tiger Lake any way they can ......

This last bit is quite interesting to note.

"A Lenovo Slim 7 laptop with a 25 watt Ryzen 7 4800U processor does come out ahead in some tests, including those that take advantage of multithreading (it’s an 8-core/16-thread chip, while Intel’s is a 4-core/8-thread processor), and video transcoding (using Handbrake, at least)."
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« Last Edit: 09/21/20 at 04:59:24 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #36 - 09/18/20 at 01:52:24
 
 
This is me talking, making predictions based upon what I have read in the last 3 months.


Intel planned out their move to 10nm years and years and years ago, but now that it has finally arrived (sort of) it really isn't a super innovative thing compared to the original AMD moves to 7nm TSMC processors, much less the just being introduced 6nm and 5nm and 4nm and 3nm TSMC products which is what the entire world is getting ready to drop down to.

To the market place, 10nm is a day late and a dollar short, in other words.

7nm isn't going to gain much more additional steam going forward what with 6nm being announced as the new TSMC node of choice, so the existing the existing early TSMC 7nm lines will get converted one by one to the newer below 6nm lithography levels by TSMC to keep being useful (if at all possible).

Intel, what will Intel do ???   Intel will use any and all tilted AI functions and tilted background libraries and legally restrictive agreements to try to maintain their 10nm position for another 5 years, but unless they can successfully roll on down to lower lithography levels Intel will fail again.  Intel will simply stay stuck at 10nm for a long long long time, way too too long just like they did at 14nm.

Meanwhile, competitors using smaller, newer and more modern lithography types (5nm 14 layer immediately comes to mind) and will continue to greatly outsrip Intel in real performance.

Intel is spending a lot of money and time to "muddle up and confuse" all forms of benchmarking right now trying to sell folks on the thought that using AI to speed up certain benchmark functions constitutes "processor advancements" when in fact it is simply using a software trick to seem to speed up the benchmark's reported results from the same old same old types of processors.   The processors don't get any faster, and normal code doesn't run any faster, just certain parts of certain benchmarks seem to execute faster.

Intel is now fully acting like a black bag company, one that runs off lawyers, dirty tricks and hidden secrets and as such INTEL IS NOT WORTHY OF YOUR TRUST ANY FURTHER.   If Intel says it ---- then automatically doubt it ......  you will likely be right or very close to it.

AMD is still making prompt bi-annual lithography moves keeping time with APPLE and TSMC lithography improvements.  TSMC just broke ground on building the buildings in a new 3nm campus, TSMC  has completely built out their 5nm campus for this year's 5nm implementations and is putting the very last of the 5nm 14 layer ASML assembly lines into it.  TSMC is on track and ready to go for 5nm.

Intel is supposedly planning on going over to go to TSMC as their build supplier starting at 6nm.   If Intel would actually start buying up some of the "converted to 6nm" old TSMC 7nm lines to replace their own ancient 14nm lines that would be an appealing enough idea (I guess) but who knows what will actually happen --- but this is Intel we are talking about after all so the odds of them doing something quick and smart needs not even be considered ........



===================================================



Nvidia buying ARM outright throws all of ARM into "future doubt" as lots of folks are now moving from ARM over to RISC-V technology just as fast as they can --- as RISC-V is royalty free technology and is not under Jensen Huang's thumb royalty-wise.   This shift is well begun starting with the smallest and simplest of the I/Cs used in hard drives, modems, general electronics, etc.  

More complex nine core PC and phone level RISC V processor chips are coming out later this year.   This could wind up being an important move for basic level phones ....... especially when the next generation of 12 and 16 core PC and phone RISC-V processors are designed and built in 2021 by an oriental consortium.  
(can we say Chinese, or is that just considered being insensitive, Mr. Biden?)


Change, she comes .......
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« Last Edit: 09/29/20 at 01:13:04 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #37 - 09/22/20 at 05:06:03
 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Leaked-roadmap-suggests-AMD-Zen-4-desktop-CPUs-...

RUMORED New Confusions over AMD Roadmaps for the next 2 years

The global pandemic appears to have messed up with the launch schedule this year, as the latest rumors regarding the Zen 3 CPU launch suggest a Q4 2020 launch, so the Ryzen 4000 desktop processors could land this October at best. Now, according to an insider close to GamersNexus, it looks like AMD might have pushed the Zen 4 launch to 2022 due to the current uncertain economic climate, possibly leaving the rest of 2021 with no exciting launches past Zen 3.

As it stands, the roadmap shows that AMD intends to introduce DDR5 support for the desktop CPU lineup in 2022. Apparently, the lineup in question is the Ryzen 5000 based on the Zen 4 microarchitecture, and it will also come with native USB 4.0 support. As far as desktop APUs are concerned, the roadmap shows that 2022 will bring Zen3+ models supporting DDR5, as well, whereas the mobile APUs will feature on-board LPDDR5 support.

Considering that the Zen 3 CPUs may get a late launch this year, it probably makes sense for AMD to postpone the Zen 4 family to early 2022, but no mobile or desktop Zen 3 APU launch for 2021 seems like a bit of a stretch. We know TSMC is opening its 5 nm production nodes this year and AMD has already booked considerable 7 nm and 5 nm production capacities for this year, so it is hard to imagine that team red will essentially skip the entire 2021 as far as consumer processor launches go. A recent leak even points out that Dell is planning to release laptops powered by Zen 3 mobile APUs next year, so that GamersNexus roadmap clearly feels inaccurate, at least when it comes to the Zen3+ APUs.


AMD sees 10nm Intel as no real threat at this time, but as always AMD can always slide their newest stuff forward in time if needed.   Conversely, AMD has often sandbagged part of a year when Intel had nothing new to offer.   You see, AMD likes to sell off old warehouse stocks at full price when they can, as "closing stuff out" to make room for new stuff costs AMD some money in discounts, etc.

Right now AMD's firm commitments to their first production lots of 5nm production at TSMC will drive their newest "foremost groundbreaking products" ...... not Intel's poor competition performance.

Question remains, what will AMD use the first lots of 5nm chiplets to build first?

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« Last Edit: 09/22/20 at 08:52:40 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #38 - 09/22/20 at 06:15:09
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfd3cO2gVHE     Just click on it


Intel actually sent Linus Tech Reviews a tweeked Intel owned proprietary review laptop, but Intel required Linus NOT TO SHOW THE LAPTOP'S INTERNALS NOR TO TEST NOR TO TALK ABOUT THE LAPTOP'S  BATTERY LIFE .....

Linus does a lot of grinning while he is talking, as he goes over much of the same things that others have brought forward so far.   He grins a lot when he tells you what he isn't allowed to show you and talks about those items he is not allowed test on camera and then he shows you some of the items he can't even talk about.  


He's genius, really.  He talks about what he can't show, he shows what he can't talk about and he initiates a benchmark which he then lets runs blind on both machines where you (the viewer) can see it in the background while Linus stands off to the side with his back to the machines where he can't possibly even see what the benchmark is showing us ---- but I think he must know the results ahead of time since he talks around the images that are developing on the two machines as "possible items" without being able to see them at all.

Grins a lot, really ......  he is really enjoying himself as he gives us his best impression of a smug Intel "fact dodging press review" as he does all the standard Intel misleading and deceitful press review tricks .......

By his demeanor, it is clear that Tiger Lake is possibly not A HOT RUNNING POWER HOG and this same "not review" also Linus infers that when both AMD and Intel Tiger Lake are run at the same watts draw the AMD products will win out easily (an easy guess since AMD would win anyway due to 2x the number of cores and at ANY given power draw AMD would draw far less battery to get the same job finished first (tasks that are covered by specific AI speed ups are exceptions although it is clear that AMD also gets it all done QUICKER in general anyway).

Most carefully stated are Linus' impressions of Tiger Lake's graphics performance, an item in which AI can show a profound % change that really has everything to do with the AI software tweeks, not anything real concerning any real improvements in the Tiger Lake GPU or the CPU that is running the AI software.

Linus then simply promises an unfettered real review later on using a real (un-tweeked) production unit purchased from independent retail sources.   He then mocks Intel's words about "each laptop being a world unto itself" as far as any performance metrics go.

Grin             

(Linus mentions all this while grinning widely)    Linus also mentions that "real production laptops" generally tend to be set for a 15 watt power draw level so as to maximize battery life ...... and the inferences provided here hinted at that Intel has set this one to around 21 watts to maximize the test results before any gross chassis soaking heat throttling takes place. (Intel clearly knowing all about the tests they put on the machine for the reviewers to use in some great detail, enough to hand tune the thermal ramp down of the preview laptop anyway).
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« Last Edit: 09/24/20 at 20:35:31 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #39 - 09/23/20 at 12:55:45
 

Short term supply issues with AMD Ryzen 4000 U series laptop chipsets are rumored to be quite severe right now as three of these AMD Ryzen 4000 U series laptop items (on 3 different brand names no less) are #1 Best Sellers right now.


Retail outlets are still taking massive orders for the very efficient and low cost laptops.    

Back order delay times of up to 3 months are being logged in now on Amazon.  

SOMETHING HAS GOT TO GIVE.

AMD needs to bring forward additional larger supplies of AMD Ryzen 4000 U series chipsets ASAP or they will open the door for Intel Tiger Lake to go ahead and waltz on in even though the AMD is clearly the better (and much cheaper) chipset.

Intel Tiger Lake is also being delayed right now, and may not be able to move quickly enough to seize this opportunity.

AMD has gotten close to getting into trouble with lack of supply a couple of times during the ramp up of Ryzen, but this is the first time it looks like a "rather large issue".

AMD has always tended to give TSMC production time to more expensive products when they hit a tight patch on TSMC production time.  

The laptop chips are not chiplet based, but are APUs (which are still old style discrete processors).   Once you are at TSMC, you are simply dealing with how you spend your production allocation in wafers, whether you want X wafers of which chiplets or you want X wafers of APUs instead ......

As said, something has got to give.   One way is to go ahead and move on down to 5nm with more expensive chiplet based products to free up your old 7nm allocation for more APUs ..... this is planned for next year, but the issue is NOW, this year.

This impressive bump in AMD Ryzen 4000 U series chipset demand has only one visible reason --- Intel has highlighted just how good the AMD units are by all their cheating shenanigans they played with the Tiger Lake introduction.
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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #40 - 09/24/20 at 20:59:48
 

https://youtu.be/i2jFN_QEcS4       it is a youtube, jest click on it

.....  a flying camera drone from AMAZON, just what every young male teenage gadgeteer needs to get into even more and deeper trouble  ......
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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #41 - 09/27/20 at 02:46:44
 

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/09/hands-on-with-intels-i7-1185g7-tiger-...




Arstechnica.com is a FOSS Linux site that primarily does Linux reviews, and as such the fact that Intel sent them a Intel built and owned Tiger Lake prototype just to see if they would heap kudos on Intel's head over Tiger Lake out of pure ignorance was another incorrect assumption that was made at Intel Marketing.

Wrong folks, Intel, they are not dumbies over at ARS --- you got a meticulously honest knowledgeable review, which we tend to think really wasn't what you were really after.  

A VERY HONEST review ......

And you apparently either forgot to tell Arstechnica all of your little fiddly little review rules (or else being a Linux site they "free and open source" plain IGNORED some of your restrictions).


Time, RUGs, and relevance

We regretfully did not spend much time on Intel's provided RUGs (Reference Usage Guidelines), which rely on real-world applications such as Adobe Photoshop and Premiere, Topaz Gigapixel AI, and Nero AI Photo Tagger. While we do agree with Intel that real-life workloads are critically important, it's difficult to separate Intel's own search for favorable comparisons from the specific features the company chooses to test inside those real world applications.

    Roll Eyes

In particular, any applications running AI inference workloads using OpenVINO will benefit enormously from Intel's AVX-512 instructions (the company brands this as Deep Learning Boost). This is a real advantage for Intel, in those applications, and we expect this advantage will increase over time as more applications begin integrating inference workflows. You can already see such workflows in applications like Photoshop for some filters and "magic select" tools.


Ars didn't do anything with the list of "approved" Intel tests as Ars saw them as pure BS PR management on Intel's behalf.   Ars also does not think that AI trickery has much to do with processor performance.


Bullet points lifted from the rather long main body of the review


Hyper-clocking up to 68 watts was detected by ARS

The system also exhibited noticeable capacitor whine. If you have a good ear for electronics, you can actually hear the device "thinking" from the change in the faint, high-pitched noise as the CPU shifts in and out of turbo frequencies, which it does rapidly.

We also did not test and will not talk about the system's battery life in this review. Again, this isn't really a laptop to be reviewed—it's just a platform that enables us to put the i7-1185G7 to the test. We did, however, check the system power consumption at the wall using a Kill-A-Watt meter. Desktop idle varies from 7.5W-8.2W, and peak consumption (as measured during the first several seconds of a Cinebench R20 run) is about 66W-68W.

Any Tiger Lake  i7-1185G7 system can briefly reach maximum turbo frequency and hit a power-consumption max of upwards of 50W, but the system doesn't stay there for more than a few seconds, before dropping clock enough to fall back to its configured TDP.

The length of time which the system is allowed to stay at the highest hyper-clocking consumption (PL2) is called “tau.”  Tau, along with the TDP itself, is configurable by the OEM. We seriously doubt tau will be disclosed on the box or in the advertising copy for many systems—and it can potentially have an even bigger impact than the TDP. A laptop allowed to run at PL2 (and draw 50+W) for minutes at a time will perform considerably higher (and exhibit a hellaciously higher power draw) than a competing system with the same TDP but a tau of only a few seconds.

In its default configuration, with a 28W TDP and roughly 25-second (65-68 watt draw during tau) the Tiger Lake i7-1185G7 reference system runs pretty much neck-and-neck with a Ryzen 7 4700U-equipped Swift 3. We see the same basic relationship among all systems on both Cinebench R20 and Passmark. Geekbench 5 flattens the differences between all the processors in general, but it puts the 1185G7 at the head of the pack.

However, we suspect many retail 1185G7 systems won't be configured for a 28W TDP—they'll likely be configured at 15W TDP, just as both the Ryzen 7 4700U in the Swift 3 and the Ice Lake i7-1065G7 in the Dell XPS 13 are. When we drop the reference-system TDP limit to 15W by moving the slider hard left, we see a significant drop in performance. It actually falls slightly below the Dell's Ice Lake 1065G7 on Cinebench R20, let alone the Acer's Ryzen 7 4700U.

Attempting to compare top of the line to top of the line (saying the tweeked & cheating in multiple manners Intel owned Tiger Lake unit is a synthetic top of the line is OK enough, we guess) doing this it is possible to get somewhat close to a unit to unit comparison.

Since the i7-1185G7 is the highest-performance SKU announced for Tiger Lake, we felt that comparing it to the Ryzen 9 4900HS in our Asus ROG 14 gaming laptop would only be fair. The 4900HS in the ROG 14 is running at 35W TDP, and it utterly dominates the Tiger Lake i7 in both Cinebench R20 and Passmark testing.   This is without any hyperclocking being used on the AMD unit and yeilding the standard Asus ROG 14 battery life ......


Conclusions

Tiger Lake as an exciting improvement from Ice Lake, Comet Lake, and prior architectures, which finally makes it a somewhat reasonable competitor for AMD's Renoir. Or  —  just as accurately  — _you can scoff at the Intel Tiger Lake's need to nearly double Renoir's power consumption before the highest-spec Tiger Lake CPU can barely manage to compete "roughly evenly" with a middling level Renoir on most tests.

If your workload is unusually (very predominately) AI-dependent, Tiger Lake is likely a slam dunk for you.  Its AVX-512 instruction set gives it an enormous advantage over otherwise more powerful and efficient AMD systems.  But we need to stress the word unusually: inference workloads are more common and important every year, but they shouldn't be most people's deciding factor yet.

Where Tiger Lake shines brightest is in the narrow realm of laptop gaming without a discrete GPU. Although the CPU portion of Tiger Lake has difficulty holding its own against AMD's Renoir, its new Xe graphics look to be the new gold standard for iGPUs. Xe isn't ready to compete with high-end discrete GPUs in the Nvidia RTX series, but we suspect it's rung the death knell for Nvidia's lower-performance, more power-efficient MX line.

The final question for any new Intel CPU line in 2020, of course, is what availability will be like. But since multiple vendors such as MSI and Acer have already announced entire product lines based on Tiger Lake, we don't expect to see a repeat of last year's Ice Lake unobtainium fiasco.




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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #42 - 09/27/20 at 03:57:13
 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16084/intel-tiger-lake-review-deep-dive-core-1...

Parts of this article were referenced in the post above this, so in fairness I list the charts and give the source so you can take a good look at it.

Intel Tiger Lake always hyper-clocks at the start of every large work load until the chipset gets hot enough to hit a thermal limit, then Tiger Lake has several different recovery curves depending on the way the laptop is set up by the builder.



This consistent Intel Tiger Lake "feature" goes a long way towards explaining the "hot running" and "power hog" designations the Tiger Lake family has been rewarded with so far.


Tongue


The following chart monitors hyper-clocking behaviors while running an Intel approved test suite, one with strong AI usage built into it  ---  you can see the hyper-clocking being triggered inside an AI test run which smells strongly of "jest plain old fashioned pre-programmed test cheating" to me.



NOTING THE LONG RECOVERY PERIODS SHOWN INSIDE THE BLUE LINE'S HYPER-CLOCKING SECTIONS AT THE END ---  I really have to question if Tiger Lake's hyper-clocking on AI trick really yields all that much in in "additional processing power" for any very real types of very short period day-to-day tasks.  

You will trigger the hyper-clocking repeatedly task by task (it comes up hard and then after about 25 seconds of full load you have to pay the 50-100 second "slowdown" recovery period for each short hyper-threading as the hyper-clocking function ends) -- this could wind up costing you more in overall processing time than the average time savings that the short duration hyper-clocking on AI trick actually gives you on the smaller tasks.  

Roll Eyes    And it will certainly overheat your laptop and eat your battery life .......

Face it, we don't generally do many things on a common laptop that take 3,000-4,000 seconds to do, period.   Much less an AI rich task set that takes 4,000 seconds.   However we can do a lot of 30 second or slightly longer tasks that will require more in recovery seconds than they save in the first place.

And if it takes 4,000 seconds worth of AI rich tasks to show a good advantage for Tiger Lake, then hey, mebbe Tiger Lake ain't such a great deal for normal people after all.
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« Last Edit: 09/29/20 at 10:26:13 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #43 - 09/27/20 at 15:47:27
 
 
https://www.techpowerup.com/268650/amd-confirms-vermeer-zen-3-not-delayed-to-...
                         
AMD fans were quiet until the main competitive reviews had landed (the ones from Tom's Hardware, Anandtech and Arstechnica and others -- the very well respected very good technical reviewers in other words).

These reviews have now landed and exposed Intel's dirty tricks for what they are ----- bogus PR manipulations that are in the same spirit as Intel sneaking a mainframe motherboard with a freon refrigerant cooler into a soundproof enclosure under the skirted display table at CES three years ago.

But the AMD fan base are now getting some licks of their own in, in a somewhat pointed fashion, to counter all the somewhat baseless Intel Marketing propaganda that has been put out by Intel in the past 4 months.



Kinda strong wording there,  boys, but we have all read the rumors about 12 core and 16 core 5nm lithography at 14 layers AMD AM5 socketed laptop products with the special AI processor layers as part of the center chipset so AMD can run the bogus Intel benchmarks even better and faster than Intel can (and at a much much lower power draw, too).  

Poetic justice, that's what that would be.

Betcha AMD can actually build theirs quicker than Intel can build their proposed 8 core Tiger Lake from scratch .....

Grin

Go ahead and piss off Lisa Su you stupid Intel idiots, I dare you .......



====================================================



FOR REFERENCE FROM 3 YEARS AGO .......

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-28-core-cpu-5ghz,37244.html

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-28-core-processor-5ghz-motherboard,37...









Just re-read the articles and note that "Intel forgot to mention" is still a favorite Intel BS excuse that Intel still uses today ......

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-28-core-cpu-5ghz,37244.html

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-28-core-processor-5ghz-motherboard,37...
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Re: AMD & others --- post AMD dominance in 202
Reply #44 - 09/29/20 at 00:43:51
 

https://liliputing.com/2020/09/review-acer-swift-3-with-ryzen-7-4700u-is-a-65...

FRESH SALT for sprinkling on Intel's open wounds


INTEL   First, they get WARNED up front not to do this sort of crap ever again, then Intel goes and does it anyway .....

They get caught just last week doing it again, exposed, then debugged by 3 major review houses.

Then Intel gets reminded of the last time they did this sort of crap and got caught at it and publicly embarrassed by the computer press .......  

Grin     and now they get caught again and will now be cheerfully pounded into the ground like a tent stake ......


So now AMAZON puts the Acer Swift 3 with Ryzen 7 4700U (a $680 laptop) on SALE for $655 !!!!! --- yep,  the Tiger Lake crusher laptop is now on SALE at Amazon !!!!!


Review: Acer Swift 3 with Ryzen 7 4700U is a $680 laptop that punches above its class

The Acer Swift 3 line of laptops are thin, light, and designed to offer a good balance of performance, mobility, and price – and the latest version seems to very much deliver on that promise.

The Acer Swift 3 (SF314-42-R9YN) is a 14 inch laptop that weighs less than 2.7 pounds, measures just over 0.6 inches thick and which has a suggested retail price of $680. But it outperforms many laptops that cost twice as much in many benchmarks.



That’s largely thanks to the AMD Ryzen 7 4700U processor that powers this laptop. It’s a 15-watt, 8-core chip that runs neck-and-neck with Intel’s Core i7-1065G7 processor in most of the performance tests I’ve run, and which can even hold it s own against more powerful chips under the right conditions.

As of September 28, 2020 the best price I can find for the Acer Swift 3 with a Ryzen 7 4700U processor is $655 from Amazon. Meanwhile the Ryzen 5 4500U version is on sale from Walmart for $579.




Take a real good look at this $655 laptop on sale at Amazon.

It is the laptop that the early crowds of $1,000-$1,400 Tiger Lake laptops will be crushed by this fall.

There will be others to follow it, as AMD has said there is no long term AMD Ryzen 7 4700U processor shortage this fall (that was just a rumor put out by the Intel Black Bag boys to encourage the buying public to pay 2x more for an Intel Tiger Lake laptop).

Latest rumors indicate even more cores are planned for 5nm 15 layer from AMD, on a new pin rich AM5 socket that has provisions for more on chip memory and will run faster I/O speeds and has even greater natural throughput speed advantages (real speed, not Intel fake speed).


So, settle back and watch the Intel PR machine attempt to sell you some specially produced yellow snow, made on the spot just for all you thirsty Eskimos .....

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