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Torque Clutch Springs Bolts? (Read 290 times)
philthymike
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Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
05/04/20 at 13:06:51
 
The Clymer book says 40-60 Nm. Set the wrench to 50 and snap - off with the head. Set the wrench to 45 and snap - off with the head. Set wrench to 40 and snap - off with the head.

Before I decapitate the final bolt, WTF?
Bad bolts?
Bad torque value?
Bad wrench?

FWIW the wrench is brand new and I have been using it on many other bolts without problems.
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Armen
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #1 - 05/04/20 at 13:18:29
 
If those are the 10mm head, 6mm thread, then 6-7 ft/lb. 72-84 inch pound. 4(?) NM
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #2 - 05/04/20 at 13:45:52
 
6-7 ft-lbs is 8 to 9.5 nm

According to Clymer the Clutch Spring bolts should be torqued to 11-13 Nm or 8 to 10 ft-lbs (Chapter 5, Clutch, Table 2. page 163).

There's nothing in the clutch assembly that gets torqued to 40-60Nm as you noted. The clutch lock nut is closest at 36-51 ft-lbs (50-70 Nm).
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philthymike
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #3 - 05/04/20 at 14:20:27
 
I see now. For some reason I failed to find table 2 on 163 and not finding it thought it must be referring to table 2 on page 20 under General Information. Doh!
My bad.
Still, they couldn't put the value in line with the text for step 22 on page 158?. Or at least provide the page number for table 2?

Step 22 could have easily read "Using a crisscross pattern, tighten the clutch bolts to X lbs.
Instead of "Using a crisscross pattern, tighten the clutch bolts to the torque specifications listed in Table 2.

It's 6 less words to just put the value in line and save having to go to another page. Seriously anal retentive authors...
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #4 - 05/04/20 at 14:35:36
 
After you do this for a while, you'll realize that 30-45 ft/lbs for a 6mm fastener is WAY wrong, even if that is what you are reading. In my bike class I have a block of aluminum that I've threaded 6, 8, and 10mm. I have the students (using a torque wrench) torque bolts into the block at the standard torque specs for those sizes. Just so they'll know what is 'normal' for those size bolts.
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #5 - 05/04/20 at 14:50:57
 
philthymike wrote on 05/04/20 at 14:20:27:
I see now. For some reason I failed to find table 2 on 163 and not finding it thought it must be referring to table 2 on page 20 under General Information. Doh!
My bad.
Still, they couldn't put the value in line with the text for step 22 on page 158?. Or at least provide the page number for table 2?

Step 22 could have easily read "Using a crisscross pattern, tighten the clutch bolts to X lbs.
Instead of "Using a crisscross pattern, tighten the clutch bolts to the torque specifications listed in Table 2.

It's 6 less words to just put the value in line and save having to go to another page. Seriously anal retentive authors...


I've been using Clymer manuals since the early '80's. They aren't always the best, but they are consistent - torque tables are always at the end of the chapter. I guess so it's easier to edit.
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philthymike
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #6 - 05/04/20 at 14:58:57
 
Gary_in_NJ wrote on 05/04/20 at 14:50:57:
philthymike wrote on 05/04/20 at 14:20:27:
I see now. For some reason I failed to find table 2 on 163 and not finding it thought it must be referring to table 2 on page 20 under General Information. Doh!
My bad.
Still, they couldn't put the value in line with the text for step 22 on page 158?. Or at least provide the page number for table 2?

Step 22 could have easily read "Using a crisscross pattern, tighten the clutch bolts to X lbs.
Instead of "Using a crisscross pattern, tighten the clutch bolts to the torque specifications listed in Table 2.

It's 6 less words to just put the value in line and save having to go to another page. Seriously anal retentive authors...


I've been using Clymer manuals since the early '80's. They aren't always the best, but they are consistent - torque tables are always at the end of the chapter. I guess so it's easier to edit.


I find it infuriating. Especially when the Clutch chapter refers you back to chapter 1 for clutch adjustment instructions. Seriously? And of course it doesn't say which page in chapter 1. But consistency for me would be having clutch adjustment procedure in the chapter for the clutch.
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philthymike
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #7 - 05/04/20 at 15:03:25
 
Armen wrote on 05/04/20 at 14:35:36:
After you do this for a while, you'll realize that 30-45 ft/lbs for a 6mm fastener is WAY wrong, even if that is what you are reading. In my bike class I have a block of aluminum that I've threaded 6, 8, and 10mm. I have the students (using a torque wrench) torque bolts into the block at the standard torque specs for those sizes. Just so they'll know what is 'normal' for those size bolts.


The bolts are 10mm. It wasn't an unusual torque value for the size.
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #8 - 05/04/20 at 15:16:01
 
philthymike wrote on 05/04/20 at 15:03:25:
Armen wrote on 05/04/20 at 14:35:36:
After you do this for a while, you'll realize that 30-45 ft/lbs for a 6mm fastener is WAY wrong, even if that is what you are reading. In my bike class I have a block of aluminum that I've threaded 6, 8, and 10mm. I have the students (using a torque wrench) torque bolts into the block at the standard torque specs for those sizes. Just so they'll know what is 'normal' for those size bolts.


The bolts are 10mm. It wasn't an unusual torque value for the size.


The hex may be 10mm but the threads are M6.
and you may get away torquing those to 30-45 a couple of times, but they'll break sooner or later... more likely sooner.
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #9 - 05/04/20 at 16:15:27
 
Philthy,
Common mistake. Fasteners are described by their thread diameter, not wrench size.
Most 6mm bolts are 10mm wrench size. 8mm are either 12 or 13. 10 can be 14, 15, 16, or 17.
And so on.
I remember once a student in my bike class announced that all the motor mount bolts were defective, and had broken when he torqued them. Turns out he was going by the 12mm wrench size instead of the 8mm thread diameter. Instant two piece bolts!
oooops Roll Eyes
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philthymike
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #10 - 05/05/20 at 06:59:43
 
I'm gonna chalk this up to never doing hooked on phonics as a kid.
Ordered a new pressure plate to the tune of $41. Lesson learned....
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #11 - 05/06/20 at 14:16:02
 
I'm really not trying to be a smart ass. But I seldom use a torque wrench.

I have worked on bikes, cars and anything else that happened to get in my way for many years. Never break a bolt or strip threads. What am I doing wrong? Perhaps on a cylinder head or something like that I would use one but routine work never. Maybe somebody up there likes me?

I am not plagued by leaks or anything else on my stuff. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. Smiley
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #12 - 05/06/20 at 16:33:09
 
I'm with you norm92de. I probably do 90-95% of my work by feel.
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #13 - 05/07/20 at 07:06:17
 
True confessions, I'm with you Norm. Use torque wrenches for stuff like cylinder heads.
A lot of the stuff I work on is old, and have had more hands on them than a drunk hooker at a frat party. Doing by feel allows me to feel the threads/fastener to stretch. Many times the right torque spec on old stuff means ripping the threads out. Loctite is your friend on old stuff.
And every now and the the manuals are wrong. I could bore you with examples, but I've busted lots of stuff using torque specs.
For a beginner, a torque wrench is a good way to develop a sense of how tight is tight enough. When I teach my class and have folks torque bolts to spec, they almost all say they would have over-torqued the 6mm fasteners and under torqued the 10mm ones.
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Re: Torque Clutch Springs Bolts?
Reply #14 - 05/07/20 at 07:18:19
 
Depends on the fastener. Engine parts, fame bolts, almost anything M8 or higher I use a torque wrench. For the run of the mill stuff, M5, M6..I go by feel...and blue loctite when I'm concerned.
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