SuzukiSavage.com - Not starting blues

Dennisgb

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Not starting blues
04/21/20 at 11:01:14

i was able to get the carburetor on my 2011 S40 cleaned and rejetted. This is an unknown bike to me having bought it not running. It hadn’t run for about 4 years according to the PO.

It has fuel and spark but just cranks and cranks. I tried a shot of starting fluid still won’t pop. This usually means bad news in my experience.

Any ideas of things to check before I start looking deeper. I thought about doing a compression test but not sure if that will work with compression release.

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Dennisgb Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 176 Maplewood MN Gender:	Re: Not starting blues Reply #1 - 04/21/20 at 11:44:19 Only compression reading I get is very low...35 PSI. Went up 10 with a squirt of oil.
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srinath Serious Thumper Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 5349	Re: Not starting blues Reply #2 - 04/21/20 at 12:49:05 That's also possible in a perfectly fine bike due to the decompression solenoid working properly. You sure you're getting fuel ? I had a clogged pilot jet in a perfectly clean carb. In fact the only part I cleaned was the carb and it fired up first try. I'd bet something is off in the carb. Cool. Srinath.
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Yoshi Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 874 LongIsland, N.Y. Gender:	Re: Not starting blues Reply #3 - 04/21/20 at 12:54:12 You said you have spark but is it nice blue strong spark? Fuel and spark with some compression should atleast light up for a second. Whats the mileage? Valves opening and closing correctly?
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Not starting blues Reply #4 - 04/21/20 at 12:55:07 I'd disconnect the decompression
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Dennisgb Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 176 Maplewood MN Gender:	Re: Not starting blues Reply #5 - 04/21/20 at 13:15:30 I did disconnect the compression release. Same number. 35 PSI. Yes I was thinking even with low compression it should at least pop. I put new jets in the carb so it’s not a plugged pilot jet. Spark is bright blue. Bike has 5500 miles on it.
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srinath

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #6 - 04/21/20 at 13:56:04

Dennisgb wrote on 04/21/20 at 13:15:30:

I did disconnect the compression release. Same number. 35 PSI.

Yes I was thinking even with low compression it should at least pop. I put new jets in the carb so it’s not a plugged pilot jet.

Spark is bright blue.

Bike has 5500 miles on it.

A lot of people think that - except if you have 35 psi compression, you're likely under 1/2 (negative) that in suction. Not enough to suck a lungful of air fuel into the chamber. That's why the bike doesn't run with low compression.
Now make sure you're not misdiagnosing this clean to an unnecessary engine rebuild - The valve clearance and timing is your next step to check and adjust. Relatively easy to do. Do that and you'd know if the timing of the valves opening closing is right

OH BTW Compression check to be done with throttle WFO - You did that right ? don't worry, tripped up many an "expert" mechanic.

Cool.
Srinath.

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Dennisgb Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 176 Maplewood MN Gender:	Re: Not starting blues Reply #7 - 04/21/20 at 14:35:17 Dang..I didn’t open the throttle. I have the carb off now, will that act like WO throttle?
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Not starting blues Reply #8 - 04/21/20 at 14:38:00 Oil the cylinder..
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Dennisgb Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 176 Maplewood MN Gender:	Re: Not starting blues Reply #9 - 04/21/20 at 14:56:10 I did oil the cylinder. Reads 60 PSI with carb off.
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Dennisgb

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #10 - 04/21/20 at 15:13:36

srinath wrote on 04/21/20 at 13:56:04:

A lot of people think that - except if you have 35 psi compression, you're likely under 1/2 (negative) that in suction. Not enough to suck a lungful of air fuel into the chamber. That's why the bike doesn't run with low compression.

This is interesting. I did also spray some starting fluid into the intake and got a little muffled puff.

srinath wrote on 04/21/20 at 13:56:04:

Now make sure you're not misdiagnosing this clean to an unnecessary engine rebuild - The valve clearance and timing is your next step to check and adjust. Relatively easy to do. Do that and you'd know if the timing of the valves opening closing is right

Srinath.

Yes this was my next step. I can see the intake valve opening and closing so that’s something anyway.

Could the valves be out of adjustment enough to cause it not to be able to suck fuel...I’ve never run across that in my 50+ years of working on engines. The way it’s acting it seems like valves are out of time. I will check the valve clearances first and see where it leads me

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ohiomoto

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #11 - 04/21/20 at 18:51:53

A low milage bike, if it looks to be complete and unmolested, is probably solid. Don't overthink this...yet.

You got a puff with the starting fluid. Keep in mind that WOT only opens the butterfly in front of the carb. The slide is still at idle so very little starter fluid is getting through very fast.

Did you remove the airbox? If so you can open the slide a little bit when you shoot the starter fluid in there IF NEEDED. Don't go starting any fires!

It's probably a fuel issue. You said you have fuel, but are you sure it's getting to the engine? Start with the simple stuff first. Is your petcock functioning properly? Have you checked that you have fuel in the carb?

Replacing a clogged jets doesn't guarantee that fuel is actually flowing through the carb. Did you test the float needle and seat?

What about the petcock? Is it the stock petcock? If so, did you test it? Did you test the vacuum lines? Are they pulling vacuum?

Did the PO give you any indication of why it sat for so long? If they didn't tell me something bad and the bike doesn't look like it was torn apart (and it shouldn't at 5500 miles) there is no way I'm looking at the top end of this bike until I've exhausted all other possibilities.

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« Last Edit: 04/22/20 at 05:12:48 by ohiomoto »

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Dennisgb

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #12 - 04/22/20 at 06:39:15

Is your petcock functioning properly?

Testing on a bottle. No tank

Have you checked that you have fuel in the carb?

Float bowl is full.

Did you test the float needle and seat?

Yes, everything checked out when cleaning carb. Fuel is getting into carb and float is shutting off

What about the petcock? Is it the stock petcock? If so, did you test it? Did you test the vacuum lines? Are they pulling vacuum?

As I said I testing on a bottle. I have the vacuum line blocked as I replaced the petcock with a Raptor.

Did the PO give you any indication of why it sat for so long? If they didn't tell me something bad and the bike doesn't look like it was torn apart (and it shouldn't at 5500 miles) there is no way I'm looking at the top end of this bike until I've exhausted all other possibilities.

PO said bike sat because he bought a Harley and just didn’t ride it anymore. I agree with what your saying here. I’ve been working on bikes for 50+ years and do a lot of turn bikes. Usually on a non runner, fluid change and carb clean is all that’s needed. This one is acting like a timing issue or really bad valve adjustments. I’m starting to suspect someone tried to adjust the valves and messed things up. I don’t hear any noise in the engine when rotating so doesn’t seem major.

I need to fix the leaky head plug anyway, so that will give me an opportunity to look at things and check the timing. From there I should get some answers.

Appreciate the comments. It’s helpful to think thru things.

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srinath

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #13 - 04/22/20 at 06:46:05

Checking timing is far far easier than getting to the head plug. Don't over complicate this.
And yes an open valve can kill compression, and if exhaust is hanging open it will kill suction, obviously.
The jump to 60 psi from carb is a good sign.
Could you have sticking rings ? Never tried those penetrating stuff in the cyl - but worth a soak and recheck.

Cool.
Srinath.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Not starting blues Reply #14 - 04/22/20 at 07:00:37 Going into places that create an opportunity to create another problem before youve got it running goes against everything I know about fixin stuff..
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