SuzukiSavage.com - Not starting blues

ohiomoto

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #15 - 04/22/20 at 10:45:02

I think Dennis will be fine. I forget which of the newer members are on it and which need it dumbed down.

Still, I agree with JOG. I like the idea of sticky rings, and I like the idea of getting a bit more than a puff before proceeding. I'd stick with it a bit more before getting into valves and plug leaks.

I mean I guess you never know why that guy bought that Harley. Maybe it's toasted.

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Dennisgb

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #16 - 04/22/20 at 11:25:57

srinath wrote on 04/22/20 at 06:46:05:

Checking timing is far far easier than getting to the head plug. Don't over complicate this.
And yes an open valve can kill compression, and if exhaust is hanging open it will kill suction, obviously.
The jump to 60 psi from carb is a good sign.
Could you have sticking rings ? Never tried those penetrating stuff in the cyl - but worth a soak and recheck.

Cool.
Srinath.

I think I’ll try soaking it. The carb had black shiny stuff in it. If by chance some fuel leaked into the cylinder during storage...

I need to clean the bench today before I work on it anyway.

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srinath

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #17 - 04/22/20 at 11:31:37

Dennisgb wrote on 04/22/20 at 11:25:57:

srinath wrote on 04/22/20 at 06:46:05:

Checking timing is far far easier than getting to the head plug. Don't over complicate this.
And yes an open valve can kill compression, and if exhaust is hanging open it will kill suction, obviously.
The jump to 60 psi from carb is a good sign.
Could you have sticking rings ? Never tried those penetrating stuff in the cyl - but worth a soak and recheck.

Cool.
Srinath.

I think I’ll try soaking it. The carb had black shiny stuff in it. If by chance some fuel leaked into the cylinder during storage...

I need to clean the bench today before I work on it anyway.

Oh yea - you need some mega strength penetrating stuff in the cyls and you still may need a few heat cycles to get them all cleaned out.
Black stuff is caked up gas ? Usually I've seen it like maple syrup - but I guess if it sits it turns to molasses then to coal.
Did it overflow from the carb ? Usually overflowing happens before it turns to black cake.

Cool.
Srinath.

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Dennisgb

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #18 - 04/22/20 at 11:34:29

Dennisgb wrote on 04/22/20 at 11:25:57:

srinath wrote on 04/22/20 at 06:46:05:

Checking timing is far far easier than getting to the head plug. Don't over complicate this.
And yes an open valve can kill compression, and if exhaust is hanging open it will kill suction, obviously.
The jump to 60 psi from carb is a good sign.
Could you have sticking rings ? Never tried those penetrating stuff in the cyl - but worth a soak and recheck.

Cool.
Srinath.

I think I’ll try soaking it. The carb had black shiny stuff in it. If by chance some fuel leaked into the cylinder during storage...

I need to clean the bench today before I work on it anyway.

Yeah I’ve rebuilt many engines over the years. This is not very complicated compared to my CBR’s Wink

No fear here tearing into it. At some point I will need to fix that head plug because it’s leaking pretty good. I hate all that ugly oil all over the front of the engine.

The PO seemed like a decent guy but you never know in these situations. As we all know when you take on a non runner it’s a crap shoot. I’ve been lucky over the years but have had a few clunkers. Bought a Yamaha Raptor 4 wheeler that the guy installed a clutch in and put the balancer in upside down...and never told me any of it. Took a long time to figure that one out.

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batman Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3806 osceola new york Gender:	Re: Not starting blues Reply #19 - 04/22/20 at 12:10:04 You may need to adjust the valves , rotate the motor to TDC by turning it in the same direction as the wheels (the Clymer manual has it backward)
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Dennisgb Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 176 Maplewood MN Gender:	Re: Not starting blues Reply #20 - 04/22/20 at 12:52:01 batman wrote on 04/22/20 at 12:10:04: You may need to adjust the valves , rotate the motor to TDC by turning it in the same direction as the wheels (the Clymer manual has it backward) Thank you. I discovered that mistake here and a buddy told me that to. Not sure why anyone would turn it backwards. Hard to find TDC that way
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Dennisgb Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 176 Maplewood MN Gender:	Re: Not starting blues Reply #21 - 04/22/20 at 14:57:42 I found my bore scope in it’s melted case from the fire in my shop. The unit was inside and actually works! I stuck it down the spark plug hole and the cylinder is scored badly and the piston is melted on the edges :'( Looks like a full rebuild.
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srinath

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #22 - 04/22/20 at 16:59:35

Dennisgb wrote on 04/22/20 at 14:57:42:

I found my bore scope in it’s melted case from the fire in my shop.

The unit was inside and actually works!

I stuck it down the spark plug hole and the cylinder is scored badly and the piston is melted on the edges :'(

Looks like a full rebuild.

How did that happen at sitting ? Anyway looks like that bike is in the right hands.
It likely was running lean. My MZ660 cracked a piston from being high compression and I bought it where the PO didn't tell me and I let it get clogged etc etc and run lean. Hairline crack - in fact it ran till I shut throttle after 15 miles of WFO.
Anyway - fix all its other problems too - look on the mods and improvements etc etc page.

Cool.
Srinath.

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Dennisgb Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 176 Maplewood MN Gender:	Re: Not starting blues Reply #23 - 04/22/20 at 18:24:02 Yes it’s taking me into a well known territory. If you have to rebuild do it right. No economy is not doing all the good stuff. Now I get to pour over the forum posts from a completely different angle
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srinath

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #24 - 04/23/20 at 07:47:43

I really suspect you may have had the oil filter backwards story as well.
The cyl piston scoring sounds like heat and lack of oil. I cant believe it would happen on a savage with a functioning lube system.
BTW I noticed the post 2009 time frame the quality of most jap bikes, especially Suzuki took a crap. The most significant one is the GS500. The 89-95 bikes were of IMHO the best quality, 96-2000 was second. 01-02 was third and 04-09 when they moved production to spain was dismal. To top it off they slapped a wanna be GSXR fairing on it, that made it cut through the wind better and top out at higher speeds, so people also wrung them out more.

Well on a savage - Question to the general forum's intelligence - did there be a drop in quality. Maybe more Chinese parts were used etc etc.

I know the 4 speed first gen bikes had the starter gear breaking issue, but really I fixed 2 of those and proceeded to ride those for years after. The rest of the bike was solid. IMHO - just a little rust prone.

Cool.
Srinath.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #25 - 04/23/20 at 08:25:25

IIRC, back during the first search for treated cam chains, a big conversation came out on that. The cam chain, according to some early reports n Old Style Savages, the chain lasted longer,, Well,, maybe so,, But, IMO, the Big chain wrecker is the tensioner design. Will a nitrided chain last longer,, Orobably, but nobody I know of has a nitrided chain who isnt also using a modified tensioner.. The valve adjusters have gone through some changes, better now? Maybe,.The rockers are no longer just a polished cast, they have a hard surface applied.

The rear brake on the 02 worked Great!
The 05? Just Look at it and lock it up..

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28890 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Not starting blues Reply #26 - 04/23/20 at 08:43:42 The newer tensioners do have a stronger spring and that will impact life of the chain.
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srinath Serious Thumper Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 5349	Re: Not starting blues Reply #27 - 04/23/20 at 09:07:23 verslagen1 wrote on 04/23/20 at 08:43:42: The newer tensioners do have a stronger spring and that will impact life of the chain. Newer as in what year ? BTW the CCT comes apart in 2 and Suzuki "fixes" that by putting in a stiffer spring ??? Cool. Srinath.
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Dennisgb

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #28 - 04/23/20 at 09:37:57

I really suspect you may have had the oil filter backwards story as well.
The cyl piston scoring sounds like heat and lack of oil. I cant believe it would happen on a savage with a functioning lube system.

Maybe. Hard to know without the back info.

When I changed the oil not much came out and it was thick and black like molasses with a funky smell. After the fact it makes sense.

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srinath

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Re: Not starting blues
Reply #29 - 04/23/20 at 10:05:01

Dennisgb wrote on 04/23/20 at 09:37:57:

I really suspect you may have had the oil filter backwards story as well.
The cyl piston scoring sounds like heat and lack of oil. I cant believe it would happen on a savage with a functioning lube system.

Maybe. Hard to know without the back info.

When I changed the oil not much came out and it was thick and black like molasses with a funky smell. After the fact it makes sense.

That's just not changing oil - even so I doubt in 5K it lost that much and it turned black etc. But who knows - maybe this one burns more at high speed. Just build it back perfect and set ring gaps etc etc perfect. It will not burn oil then, and check guides and seals etc too.

I've run 4K on my bolt, a lot of it at high speed, putting on those miles rather rapidly - in a span of maybe 3.5 week in the peak of summer. It has a 4qt capacity and every bit of 4qt came out - yea was black but it was still "oil" not molasses by any stretch of the imagination. Of course it was a running bike, and I drained it after a 100+ mile ride waiting barely long enough to find my wrenches and drain pan.

Cool.
Srinath.

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