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The Ratchet Effect (Read 156 times)
WebsterMark
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The Ratchet Effect
04/17/20 at 05:28:35
 
From an article I read this morning that’s spot on.

“The first is that government authority is programmed to grow, never shrink. “

“....the ratchet effect, which holds that the state gains powers during a crisis, then surrenders only some of them afterwards, yielding a net growth in government.”
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Eegore
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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #1 - 04/17/20 at 05:38:19
 

 
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/we-dont-need-to-live-in-a-po...


 Unless you get someone like Trump in office who is willing to make cuts.  I know there's a ton of backlash when X-Agency has a funding cut, like the EPA, or the CDC, but on the other side we can't continually add, add, add and maintain an efficient program.

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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #2 - 04/17/20 at 06:54:12
 
Eegore wrote on 04/17/20 at 05:38:19:
 
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/we-dont-need-to-live-in-a-po...


 Unless you get someone like Trump in office who is willing to make cuts.  I know there's a ton of backlash when X-Agency has a funding cut, like the EPA, or the CDC, but on the other side we can't continually add, add, add and maintain an efficient program.

 


Of course, you are only correct if the actual intent is to maintain an "efficient program,"

It isn't.


“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.”
― George Orwell, 1984
.


capiche ?
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srinath
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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #3 - 04/17/20 at 07:09:01
 
The annoying thing is Bush expanded govt a lot even while paying lip service to small govt under the umbrella of 9/11. Obama expanded it more. Trump started cutting it, some of it seemed indiscriminate - because well, it was, and it also was probabilistic and hence can always be blamed for not considering a .001% of this or that - never mind some expert always says its freaking 100%.

Yea 3 yrs of cutting around the edges of the previous 24 yrs of expansion can always be claimed to be cut too deep etc etc crap.

When both sides are against the tax payer it seems like an indiscriminate butcher may be the only one for LOL.

Cool.
Srinath.
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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #4 - 04/17/20 at 07:10:26
 

 The more I see complaints about over-regulation the less I think Orwell was on to something.

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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #5 - 04/17/20 at 09:01:46
 
In my experience, George Orwell words, especially in the book 1984.
Are spot on.
And the more that people quote him, the more they learn, what is happening.

It is my experience that the people that complain that George Orwell’s words are not relevant in today's society.
Are the architects of, or the beneficiaries of, that warning.

Just a few in point. (Their are so many more)

Used to have FSTC in the local school, wanted to keep that option open.
School board said NO because someone else said no.
It had to be explained to them they DID have the authority to say yes to Firearms in Schools for a FST Class.

A City, telling a developer they HAD to have a Codicil  or a Homeowners agreement in place, when in that City/State, their is NO SUCH requirement.   (No Virginia a ‘Codicil' is NOT just a adjustment to a will)

A Police man, saying he was going to confiscate a Firearm, sitting in the front seat of a car, (Unloaded, In a Case, case fully closed). Which was perfectly, and completely Legal. AND the State law, said, "Notwithstanding Local Regulations” (Again for Virginia, Notwithstanding, means in spite of). His excuse was, ‘well we do things differently here’.

Employees at a Court House, saying ‘Well the County Planning Commission has denied the request for the CUP, (Conditional Use Permit), so you have no more resources for that project". When the TRUTH is, according to the law in that place, it is the ELECTED Commissioners of that County that make the final decision, NOT the appointed, administrators.  

And as handy as a ratchet wrench is.
It CAN, be undone.
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #6 - 04/17/20 at 18:05:56
 
These words, "...if Janet can call in a SWAT team on her coughing neighbor who just so happens to have ditched her at the prom back in 1973...."

From this site:
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/we-dont-need-to-live-in-a-po...

As troubling as those words are, concerning the new strain of virus.
They are exactaly what the UL DFI FDS Gun Grabbing Socialists want any, 'red law', to become.


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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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WebsterMark
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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #7 - 04/19/20 at 04:39:04
 
My name for the ratchet the fact is the stop sign phenomenon. How often have you seen stop signs come down after they’ve gone up? Sure it happens but it’s very rare. Even if the traffic patterns change, doesn’t matter the stop sign remains. Very annoying and is all motorcyclist know,  intersections are dangerous. Interestingly enough, I was in Germany and noticed that driving through Frankfurt in the neighborhoods many of the four-way streets did not have stop signs. It was customary for all the drivers to slow and see if there was traffic coming as opposed to always stopping at a four-way even if there’s absolutely no traffic around.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #8 - 04/19/20 at 06:03:51
 
It was customary for all the drivers to slow and see if there was traffic coming as opposed to always stopping at a four-way even if there’s absolutely no traffic around.

What? You mean allowing the unwashed to think and decide is safe?
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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WebsterMark
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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #9 - 04/20/20 at 06:03:53
 
Exactly. Much of this is about determining your level of risk. We all ride motorcycles which means we’ve all decided to accept a level of risk. Some ride only with ATGATT, some don’t. Again, we all determine the level of risks we’re comfortable with.

I’ve tried to find detailed demographics on the severely ill and those who have died from COVID-19 in the St. Louis area to no avail. I want to know how many of those had one of the six or seven underlying health conditions. I want to know how many were living in group retirement home settings/communities. I want to know the ages, I want to know if they were traveling to work everyday or mostly staying at home.
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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #10 - 04/20/20 at 10:21:22
 
WebsterMark wrote on 04/20/20 at 06:03:53:
" ...  I’ve tried to find detailed demographics on the severely ill and those who have died from COVID-19  ... "

Always wondered what happens to those people that need immediate bypass Heart surgery,
who die because the beds are needed ?

Or how many cancers are not cut out, then the cancer spreads and affects all other organs.
To save the beds ?

How many hip surgeries are canceled, that the people that badly need them, fall and smash their head on something.
Because beds have to be reserved ?

One would think that would be the CDC’s, and other medical recording entities, job to sort that out.
Perhaps they are to busy telling all the doctors how to record every possible death as C-19’s fault.
(and of coarse telling the rest of us, they May, at Some time, in the Future, change those numbers)

Any graph of COVID-19, positive tests, which if you had a Flu shot sometime, depending on what kind of test, are not a accurate number.
Nether is deaths by C-19.
Unless you are a next of kin, and have a hard copy of the death certificate, you will never know if the death is due to, lung disease, stroke, Alzheimer's, diabetes, flu, pneumonia, kidney, heart, cancer, etc. Or C-19.


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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #11 - 04/20/20 at 10:30:46
 

"I’ve tried to find detailed demographics on the severely ill and those who have died from COVID-19 in the St. Louis area to no avail. I want to know how many of those had one of the six or seven underlying health conditions. I want to know how many were living in group retirement home settings/communities. I want to know the ages, I want to know if they were traveling to work everyday or mostly staying at home. "

 

 I don't know about where you live but in CO this information isn't exactly easy to verify.  I have the privilege of seeing some information not released to the public, like the cellphone metadata, and it's useful but not a "go-to" for verification.  For instance we couldn't prove the owner of the phone was the one with it.

 As for some of the other information it just takes time to compile.  I'd like detailed demographics too, but there's not a lot of people allocated to this detail, at this time.  Reminds me of getting a team into NY for 9/11.  People wanted "identification" but the first steps were to just find a safe (contamination free) way to house the bodies.  I was already sent overseas when the team arrived in NY so I didn't experience it first hand, but the briefings when I got back showed areas that scrambled for DNA/Dental/Fingerprint ID's actually had lower accuracy.

 I didn't expect that, but I see how it happened.
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Eegore
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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #12 - 04/20/20 at 10:38:50
 
"Always wondered what happens to those people that need immediate bypass Heart surgery,
who die because the beds are needed
?"


 All of them receive surgery.


Or how many cancers are not cut out, then the cancer spreads and affects all other organs.
To save the beds
?


 Cancer care is not to be cancelled, in any form, including non-invasive consultations.  Cancer is considered life-threatening at all stages.



"How many hip surgeries are canceled, that the people that badly need them, fall and smash their head on something.
Because beds have to be reserved
?"



 They should receive surgery.  Orthopedic surgeries are rarely cancelled, none where I am have been cancelled, unless insurance has pulled out and the patient elects to cancel.

 All of those are continued care and would not be canceled.  None of those patients should be denied surgery by law.  Hip surgery might not be covered, but if it is a mobility or safety issue, it's approved unless insurance denies it.

 I would be interested in any verifiable information indicating that people needing emergency surgeries, and cancer care are denied.  Anyone you know that this has happened to I have resources for as the denial is illegal and they should be allowed representation.
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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #13 - 04/20/20 at 10:49:23
 
Eegore wrote on 04/20/20 at 10:38:50:
 All of them receive surgery.

Please Prove that is happening.
 Because, 'Whistle-blower',  Doctors say otherwise.

(Wait, forgot, only some, 'Whistle-blower's', are to be believed.
While others are Not !)


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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Eegore
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Re: The Ratchet Effect
Reply #14 - 04/20/20 at 10:55:00
 

"Please Prove that is happening.
Because, 'Whistle-blower',  Doctors say otherwise."


 Can you provide reference for this?

 I have not seen any information that heart surgeries are being cancelled for bed space.  At most I could see a lack of staff, or surgical equipment, but not bed space being an issue.  Even at that all attempts should, legally, be made to transfer the patient to appropriate care.

 If they are being denied emergency surgery for any patient that "might" come in, that is illegal.

 I can't prove every human in the US is getting emergency bypass surgery when needed, so I should have phrased it "They should by law be receiving emergency bypass surgery."
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