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May have ruined engine. (Read 1004 times)
norm92de
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #30 - 04/10/20 at 16:17:22
 
I have just examined a new filter and it definitely has a pressure relief valve in the center. I believe its purpose is to relieve excess pressure when the oil is cold or if the filter becomes blocked.
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stewmills
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #31 - 04/10/20 at 18:55:08
 
Ditto. Here are two close-up pics.

This is the engine side. See the spring inside.

I see where norm is going...but this valve pushes in from the other side.  This just confuses me as I imagine oil going in the open hole and if pressure inside the filter builds up this valve would need to go the other way....but I'm no engineer either.  Huh Huh Huh

Does oil go the other way? If yes, then this all makes perfect sense.
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filter1.PNG

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stewmills
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #32 - 04/10/20 at 18:55:41
 
Here I am depressing the valve. This view is from the outward-facing side.
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filter2.PNG

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #33 - 04/10/20 at 19:44:38
 
Well Now I'm confused.
That's a one way check, if I'm seeing right.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #34 - 04/10/20 at 20:10:27
 
The pressurized oil fills the filter cavity and flows into the filter through the pleated filter media.  The oil flows from the outside of the filter to the inside of the filter.  It flows through these pleats.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #35 - 04/10/20 at 20:14:52
 
When the oil is cold and thick, or if the filter media is very dirty/clogged, a relief valve lifts to let the oil bypass the filter media.  That relief valve is located in the outer metal casing of the filter.  This shows the relief valve disc (shiny metal thing that the pen is pointing to).  If you gently push on that disc with a soft object, you will note that it will move inward.  The internal spring holds the disc on its seat until oil pressure is sufficient to overcome the spring.  Stewmills zeroed right in on it.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #36 - 04/10/20 at 20:20:04
 
After the oil passes through the filter media, or past the relief valve, it exits the filter through this hole.  It then proceeds through the end of the crankshaft to lubricate the rod bearing and cylinder, and also through the channel in the engine case that directs oil to the top end and the gearbox. Note the perforated metal in the picture.  That perforated metal is there to support the paper filter media so it doesn't collapse and get run through the system (a fate worse than death).  :'(
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #37 - 04/10/20 at 20:23:09
 
This is why I don't use aftermarket oil filters unless they are from a quality aftermarket vendor like K&N or Wix.  I really prefer the OEM filter.  I know that I'm getting a filter with the internal bypass relief set to factory specs and capable of flowing the minimum specified.   Note the words "Factory Tested" on the package.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #38 - 04/10/20 at 20:28:47
 
So, Bokobob, I believe you said you reused the filter that was already in the engine.  If you are absolutely confident that you had the big hole in the filter facing the crankshaft, I think there is only one way the pressure could have built up to the point of blowing your filter cover to smitherines.  The relief valve didn't lift.  My recommendation is to get one of these and make real sure that its installed correctly, with the hole facing the crankshaft and the relief valve facing out.
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stewmills
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #39 - 04/11/20 at 07:03:31
 
I've been using these for the last few years. I have no reference to the true quality but I haven't blown my case yet. I also change my oil VERY often as to never have a clogged filter.

We have learned a lot this week  Cool
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Bokobob
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #40 - 04/11/20 at 08:04:50
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 04/10/20 at 20:10:27:
The pressurized oil fills the filter cavity and flows into the filter through the pleated filter media.  The oil flows from the outside of the filter to the inside of the filter.  It flows through these pleats.


I was astonished to read that the oil flows FROM the outside of the filter to the inside through the pleated folds.  I had thought for sure that it flowed from the inside of the filter to the outside of the filter and exited the "cavity" through a fairly small hole elsewhere in the cavity casting.  
So I ask, where does the incoming oil from the engine enter the filter cavity?  

Please note that the K&N  filter that was in my bike when the side cover blew out while I was starting the engine appears to have experienced no damage whatsoever.  The heavy metal side cover itself that blew out  has a hole the size of a silver dollar or larger...Go figure.  Seems very strange to me.    :'(
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norm92de
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #41 - 04/11/20 at 14:34:38
 
I like the idea that whomever provides the warranty provides the filter. Smiley

It a'int rocket science. Plus a filter is a pretty modest in vestment compared to a new engine!!!

Course I may be "wrong" :'(
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stewmills
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #42 - 04/11/20 at 17:03:02
 
DBM is 100% correct on the oil flow (not that I didn't believe him).

I went and looked at my parts engine.  

Look at the image. In yellow on the engine side is what I will call the oil pump outlet, and on the case is the inlet to the oil filter area. If you look at this and think about what is going on, oil has to flow this direction and it all makes sense.  The oil pump outlet fits snugly into the corresponding hole in the case circled in yellow, which is of course the oil filter cavity.

See the red "oil path"

Oil goes into this little filter cavity under some degree of pressure, flows into the outside of the filter down through the center of the filter (now clean, filtered oil), then up into the little oil passage that eventually carries oil up to the top of the engine and (I think) to the backside of the clutch case where it spits out clean oil there too.

So, if you have a gunked up filter and oil comes shooting into the oil filter cavity under pressure it has to go somewhere. Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Hiko
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #43 - 04/11/20 at 18:53:07
 
Well I have learned something
I assumed the oil flow was from the inside out and it is now obvious to me it goes the other way for the reasons that Mike said
I have an old unknown make  filter laying around here and I checked the force needed to open the relief valve on my wifes kitchen scales when she wasnt looking and it came out at 155 g or 5.4 lb
It would be interesting to know what the opening force is on your filter Bob
Stewmills  great pic but it appears to me that the oil from the pump comes up the gallery to the left of your yellow circle and DOWN to the crankshaft
where you have marked the flow up [Your lower red arrow] ?
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stewmills
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #44 - 04/11/20 at 19:19:02
 
My red arrows might be off. I will take a peek tomorrow and get it right so I don’t lead anyone astray, and we can have an accurate reference.
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