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May have ruined engine. (Read 1003 times)
Bokobob
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May have ruined engine.
04/08/20 at 09:31:37
 
2009 Suzuki Boulevard s40.  Thumper.

I'll get to the "failure" in a moment.  

Changed oil several days ago.  Shell Rotella T, conventional, 15W40.
Did not change filter..I didn't have a new one.

Rode bike probably 200 miles total from new oil change to yesterday morning..Had it up to 70 mph a half mile at a time for a few times when out in the country.

Started bike yesterday morning (cold engine) with full choke and no throttle...Ran good for a few seconds and stalled.  (Not unusual for this bike)

Tried starting again two more times or so and it got going and wanted to falter again so I pushed in the choke about halfway and "helped" it with the throttle..(Please don't scold me.)

The engine was revving vigorously but hardly more than a third of its rpm capacity if that even.  This whole starting episode from the very beginning to the very end lasted less than a minute.  The final time I started it - third or fourth try - it revved up and all of a sudden two thirds of the three-sided metal cover for the oil filter was blown off clear across the garage.  Lots of oil "dumped" out..The engine either quit or I shut it off (forget which) immediately.  

Did a lot of research and watched a few tutorials trying to find out what to do.

Got on Ebay and bought a number of items:  new metal sidecover, small and larger o rings applicable to the oil filter and filter cover, springs, OEM filters.  

Cleaned up the mess and added 1.5 quarts of oil to the crankcase.  leaned the bike way over to left side and right side and notice no leaks...
Now oil level glass is just at the full mark...must have not lost every bit of the old oil.

I am wondering if once I get it buttoned up when the new parts and supplies arrived and I install them if you good folks think I should just try to start it up?  If not, what would you suggest, please.  

Many thanks...

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Bob
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srinath
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #1 - 04/08/20 at 09:43:28
 
This bike can survive on very very little oil.
However you may have had a blockage in the flow, likely in the oil galley. Bottom end is ball bearings. Cams are in an oil puddle, the end bearings for the cams are plain bearings - need oil pressure.
There is an gasket groove on the upper side of the right case that's required to be clear to let oil pressure to the cam bearings.
You may have a plugged up oil passage there, or a bypass spring etc installed wrong. But losing that cover also meant you likely have bad threads in the case where that cover bolts go in.
Make sure that those bolts threads are intact before proceeding. The oil galleys also should be clear and not plugged.

Cool.
Srinath.
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oldNslow
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #2 - 04/08/20 at 09:54:26
 
look at this

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1099572561

scroll down till you find Verslagen1's reply titled "OK newbs, pay close attention here"

I think your oil filter was installed backwards.
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srinath
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #3 - 04/08/20 at 09:56:06
 
If you will park it till the corona clamp down ends - I will come by clean the carb and swap the float bolts for allen and we can inspect and attempt to start it.
You got the other one running right - just ride it.
Man I cant get my 17 yr old to learn/ride without literally dragging him every inch of the way. And you're here @ 85 raring to go every chance you get.
These Millennials are just another breed of lazy. The minute you tell them for having sex you have to move, you can hear most of them letting out a groan. And that will be the guys, the girls would likely ask - do I have to move or just the boys.

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srinath
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #4 - 04/08/20 at 09:58:45
 
oldNslow wrote on 04/08/20 at 09:54:26:
look at this

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1099572561

scroll down till you find Verslagen1's reply titled "OK newbs, pay close attention here"

I think your oil filter was installed backwards.




Oh wow, you guys have every aspect covered - I didn't even know that was possible - not only is it possible someone already done it and has the scars to prove it LOL.

Cool.
Srinath.
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #5 - 04/08/20 at 12:25:46
 
oldNslow wrote on 04/08/20 at 09:54:26:
I think your oil filter was installed backwards.


He said he didn't change the filter. Moreover he put 200 miles on the bike after he changed the oil. The typical filter blowout happens immediately. Something else is going on.

Do not start the engine just yet, because you'll likely will get the result. I have to give this some thought to think about what could be causing such a blockage the filter become ballistic.

Bob, did you account for everything you used to change the oil? Is it possible that a rag or something else found its way into the engine? Did you find anything on the floor or lodged in the filter that looked like it came from your workbench?
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #6 - 04/08/20 at 12:34:14
 
He didnt change it,, but did he pull it and dump it?

This observation is valuable..

Moreover he put 200 miles on the bike after he changed the oil. The typical filter blowout happens immediately. Something else is going on.

So, maybe it's gonna live,,
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #7 - 04/08/20 at 13:40:15
 
Yikes!  Sorry to hear that Bob.  Odd, as others have stated, since you didn't change the filter. That blow-out is usually from a filter being in backwards.

I have a parts '95 engine...if you need anything I have that is '09 compatible let me know.
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #8 - 04/08/20 at 15:23:50
 
A blowout like this seems as though there is a blockage somewhere on the
pressure side of the oil pump and the filter cover is the weakest point to relieve that pressure

You recently changed the oil Was the old oil in really bad condition?

Rotella is a high detergent oil designed for diesel engines to reduce sludge buildup it may be possible that the new oil released a gob of sludge that blocked a small oil gallery somewhere.  I have heard of this happening on other engines other than motorcycles Usually the small passages leading to rocker arms.
My sympathies Bob
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #9 - 04/08/20 at 16:09:10
 
Thank you guys for the MANY helpful and informative replies...I am going to read them all again this evening and take notes and also record your questions and then tomorrow write a full reply.

My hunch is that it is "probable" (based only on hunch Smiley  ) that the following may well be among the reasons (not in any order)  :

1.  After cleaning filter cavity and putting old filter back in, may not have seated it perfectly but I know I put in the right way and not backwards.
2.  Put in too much oil??
3.  High detergent oil may have broken loose some sludge as one of you suggested.
4.  Any one of several other reasons.
5.  Unknown.  

hope the engine isn't permanently damaged...we will see.

Again, thank you..

Bob
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Hiko
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #10 - 04/08/20 at 16:43:03
 
This backwards filter thing got me curious and being in virus lockdown here in NZ i decided to check it out.
I always assumed that the filter cover being damaged was due to the bolts being tightened with the filter installed wrong way around but on my bike and checking with two different filters there is still 2.5 to 2.8 mm clearance even with them installed back to front

This is enough to provide full flow by pushing the filter back against the spring as one quarter of the diameter of the 10mm port provides this.

 I conclude then that the damage is caused by the hammering of the filter against the cover by the pulses of the oil pump.

Not saying this is the case here as you are sure you installed correctly
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #11 - 04/08/20 at 17:07:44
 
I recently took a horrible risk and changed the oil and filter myself, because of the lock down here I've only done forty odd miles, so far so good. I'm wondering if the filter cover O ring hasn't slipped out on re assembly and has some how got into the system.
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #12 - 04/08/20 at 19:23:48
 
If the cover oring were missing or partially broken I would expect visible oil squirting out under pressure. In fact, that leak may relieve enough pressure to avoid the cover exploding off. Maybe?
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #13 - 04/08/20 at 20:14:20
 
.dealerships are not immune to installing a filter bakkerds
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Re: May have ruined engine.
Reply #14 - 04/09/20 at 06:01:30
 
Good morning guys...

New day, new high hopes...Not for the "injured" bike for this 24 hours though, seeing as the needed parts on order from Ebay are not here yet, most notably replacement triangular side cover for the  filter, as well as new filters, spring and new o rings for filter-related use.    (Dumb question:  if when I get the replacement side filter cover installed, might it be staying on the safe side to not put in a new filter initially?)  If I do that and am brave/dumb enough to try to start bike that way and it runs ok, then after a few days riding, I could change the oil again and add a brand new filter.   (Advice please)

I addressed  several or the various questions you good folks asked by individual PMs last night.  

Summarizing:  

Nothing "foreign" such as rags, etc., got into the engine.

I did not replace filter with new, but did clean out the cavity and am certain I put all pieces back in properly: filter, o rings,  spring.  However, spring seemed a bit cockeyed and might be the culprit.  It was difficult to get the filter buttoned back up.  Might well be the reason, but again, I rode 200 miles over three days or so on the new T4 Rotella oil and had no problems.. When installing the filter over the little o ring, should it "stay put" by itself so that the little cover and spring can be placed over it easily?  (Mine did not).  As said, it was difficult to reinstall.  

Drained Oil was "ready" to be drained but nowhere near filthy.  Conceivably the T4 oil's high detergency qualities may have broken loose some sludge as one of you suggested....

I mentioned adding new oil and rocking bike from side to side as far as I could lean it while straddling. No leaks were evident from doing that.  At present the oil in the oil window is right at the top.  I only added a quart and a half or so.  Thus I feel certain some oil did not blow out when part of the filter side cover got blown off.  

The allen screws holding the oil filter cover to the engine block did not blow off or loosen at all.  Just the center of the cover blew out.  It was a piece 2/3 the size of the filter "circle."  

The drama continues.....I appreciate all the suggestions, good will and
offers of assistance....

Meanwhile, my other thumper (1996) is in the shop getting new rear tire/tube installed and will be rideable once done.  (I did install a new filter in the 1996 bike when I changed the oil to motorcycle specific oil a couple of months ago when I bought it.  )

Best,

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Bob
84 and still riding
2009 S40 650, and Rebel 250
Gastonia, NC
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