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The policy is, lie (Read 796 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #60 - 04/12/20 at 08:48:10
 
Provisional coding
Provisional coding

Not truthful ,knowing it's not truthful
Telling people to alter reasonable codes to known lies..
Bullshit
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #61 - 04/12/20 at 11:02:48
 


Ther IS no excuse for this..
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #62 - 04/12/20 at 13:27:30
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 04/12/20 at 11:02:48:

Sure their is,
Just ask anybody in a medical/care/research/study field.

It is FUNDING.
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #63 - 04/12/20 at 15:53:13
 

"Not truthful ,knowing it's not truthful
Telling people to alter reasonable codes to known lies..
Bullshit"



 Where is the lie exactly?  What I see is a truthful disclosure of data collection methods and people that don't know what that means.  It may not be the best method, but you aren't being lied to.  

 It is truthful - because it is called "provisional" and they are disclosing fully the procedure.  Provisional data isn't used for final rates, so where is the lie?

 Because you don't know how it works doesn't make it a lie.  But lets leave that part out so we can call it a lie.  Lets just pretend the CDC is releasing this information to the public as final statistics so it sounds worse.

 Also lets not read the forms so we have plausible deniability.  

 Is it the best process?  I doubt it is, but since you know, from public sources - again - from public sources, you aren't being lied to.  It may be a bad process, but it's not a lie just because people are ignorant.

 It's like saying I want to classify all vehicle related deaths as automobile deaths, including people that committed suicide in a stationary vehicle.  Then later I go through the provisional data and cut out all vehicles that weren't in a collision.

 I lied?  I lied because I literally told you I was collecting and classifying all vehicle related deaths to include suicide in stationary vehicles.  Then I work the metrics and provide a death toll in categories ranging from suicide in vehicle to hit and runs, to collisions in a segmented readout with references.

 Lies.  Even though it was right in front of you the whole time.

 

 

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #64 - 04/12/20 at 16:47:29
 
Attributing deaths when it's clearly not so is
Lying.
They aren't saying every time they spout the toll
But a bunch of these don't belong
So WHY DO IT?
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #65 - 04/12/20 at 16:50:49
 
"Just ask anybody in a medical/care/research/study field."

 Well to be fair not "anybody" just the people that agree with you.

 I've worked in the medical field for 15 years now, 11 of them in a care and research facility.  Not everyone I work with considers provisional coding like this to be exclusively a funding grab.  I've asked about 300 people what their take is on this, 44 have responded, 44 have said that this particular coding change is not specifically enough to say that it is absolutely for funding, but could be.

 So don't ask anybody, just ask the ones that agree.
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #66 - 04/12/20 at 16:59:35
 
"Attributing deaths when it's clearly not so is
Lying."


 So if I tell you I am including all vehicle related deaths into my metrics, even those that are not from the vehicle itself how exactly am I lying to you about my collection method?

Remember this is not data I am using to tell you how many people died from vehicles, I am only telling you how I am collecting the information.  How is that lying?


"They aren't saying every time they spout the toll
But a bunch of these don't belong
So WHY DO IT?"


 It says very clearly in the forms you linked why.  If you can't be bothered to read all of the information you provided it's not the CDC's responsibility to change their process to accommodate anyone's ignorance.

 Also the "toll" hasn't been calculated, these are estimates, and those estimates include the provisional UCOF.  That process everyone has been told about, it is disclosed online and in multiple preliminary release numbers.  It's literally in the release stats, so how is it a lie?

 Again the process may not be the best, but it is shared in multiple ways, and it is included in the release stats.  

 So maybe the issue is that people are getting their information from websites, or news channels that do not do their due diligence to explain all factors of a data release metric.  Imagine that, news not being as accurate as your own study on a topic.
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #67 - 04/12/20 at 18:12:55
 
Celebrate the pandemic man, and Trump will absolutely crush Biden by saying he's tough on china, he's been tough on china, and he's the best at dealing with china like he did for 3.5 yrs.
This Pandemic gives me the work form home ability, forever, gives my work space "modernization" project a shot in the A$$ and really I don't see the down side. Better for environment, better for the company's bottom line better for the infrastructure, and better for me personally. Enjoy the quarantine, then enjoy the aftermath. Stock market will hit 25K soon and slowly climb back to 30K in a few months. We'll be mail ordering more, and telecommuting more and spending less and less and less on gas and automobile related crap. AKA $1.50 gas is here to stay, empty roads too, and if you wanna ride your bike in peace - oh yea that's there for the taking. Enjoy.

Cool.
Srinath.
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #68 - 04/13/20 at 01:21:11
 
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/20/how-mitch-mcconnell-became-trum...

Stuart Stevens, a longtime Republican political consultant, agrees that McConnell’s party deserves a considerable share of the blame for America’s covid-19 disaster. In a forthcoming book, “It Was All a Lie,” Stevens writes that, in accommodating Trump and his base, McConnell and other Republicans went along as Party leaders dismantled the country’s safety net and ignored experts of all kinds, including scientists. “Mitch is kidding himself if he thinks he’ll be remembered for anything other than Trump,” he said. “He will be remembered as the Trump facilitator.”
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MAGA! Make the Assholes Go Away
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #69 - 04/13/20 at 05:27:01
 
McConnell and other Republicans went along as Party leaders dismantled the country’s safety net and ignored experts of all kinds, including scientists.
No one dismantled anything. This is a precursor to what we’re going to see. Leftist will ignore facts and analysis that require logic to follow. What we’ll see is selected stories of and lies repeated so often, they’ll be assumed as facts among the leftist. We’ll further our nation’s divide by the “Trump is solely responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and the other side will say Trump is responsible for saying millions. Neither is true but that won’t matter. It’s the game that counts.
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eau de sauvage
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #70 - 04/13/20 at 07:03:39
 
WM, just saying about everything you don't like "it's a lie" is pretty silly, it's easy sure, but silly nonetheless.

Trump is not in any way responsible for the Covid-19 outbreak, but he is responsible for a crucial period of about 3 or 4 weeks delay in response. When the dust has settled, the truth will come out in the end.

This is just one of many Trump fcuk ups, which unfortunately this time has resulted in extra needless dead citizens not millions, but some number of thousands which we won't know for a year. Like it or not, it is what it is.
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srinath
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #71 - 04/13/20 at 08:02:25
 
eau de sauvage wrote on 04/13/20 at 07:03:39:
WM, just saying about everything you don't like "it's a lie" is pretty silly, it's easy sure, but silly nonetheless.

Trump is not in any way responsible for the Covid-19 outbreak, but he is responsible for a crucial period of about 3 or 4 weeks delay in response. When the dust has settled, the truth will come out in the end.

This is just one of many Trump fcuk ups, which unfortunately this time has resulted in extra needless dead citizens not millions, but some number of thousands which we won't know for a year. Like it or not, it is what it is.




Atleast partially due to China's cover up going back to Dec, and their current lies about their 81K infected. And the very fact that they let it get out should be reason to look at the china Tarriffs with a more favorable POV.
They're a slave camp that manipulates their currency destroying US industry, then spreads diseases destroying the whole world's economy and way of life. Tarriffs should have been stiffer, and they need to be made stiffer now. I don't know what else can be a takeaway here. Trump should have paid more of our tax $$$ to a black hole called CDC and have had the same effect bla bla bla is just Bogus Bull crap.

Here is a good way to throw $$$ at this problem. IMHO one of them Nuclear missiles costs 10 million. I'm very happy to allocate 100 - 200 mill to fix this problem. Just strategically deliver them to various spots in china.

Cool.
Srinath.
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #72 - 04/13/20 at 10:22:29
 
eau de sauvage wrote on 04/13/20 at 07:03:39:
WM, just saying about everything you don't like "it's a lie" is pretty silly, it's easy sure, but silly nonetheless.

Trump is not in any way responsible for the Covid-19 outbreak, but he is responsible for a crucial period of about 3 or 4 weeks delay in response. When the dust has settled, the truth will come out in the end.

This is just one of many Trump fcuk ups, which unfortunately this time has resulted in extra needless dead citizens not millions, but some number of thousands which we won't know for a year. Like it or not, it is what it is.


The truth is leaders made different decisions based on the information available to them at the time. Had Trump shut down all travel into the USA the second the word Coronavirus was first heard, sure, there’d be a difference. But the only leader who would have done that is a fictitious one on Hindsight world.

There will be massive lies told in the future and your history indicates you will be pushing any narrative that makes Trump look bad regardless of the validity of the allegations.  So prepare your drive by ammunition. Fire into a house and leave. It’s expected.
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #73 - 04/13/20 at 11:04:42
 
Ultimately, it will be virtually impossible to analyze without having access to all the data. Media sites have chosen sides and will put their slant on any story. Just look at the way they’re handling the Biden abuse allegations vs the way they handled Brett Kavanaugh.
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #74 - 04/13/20 at 11:08:43
 

"Ultimately, it will be virtually impossible to analyze without having access to all the data. Media sites have chosen sides and will put their slant on any story."

 Yeah but if we acknowledge that we can't argue our points with any semblance of validity.  For instance if I read the 7 page report I linked I cant claim it represents something that I want it to represent, instead of what it actually does.
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