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The policy is, lie (Read 796 times)
Eegore
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #45 - 04/10/20 at 19:23:52
 
"(Now you, changed it, to a,"Private", airplane)  LOLOLOL
Aw sum, DEFLECTION !!!!!"


 Name a public airline.  I notice you start to argue semantics when you want to avoid the topic.  Lets just say "airplane" and call it done.



"Again,  explain what the word/s, 'FREELY ADMIT" means,
when YOU said:

"...I did not freely admit Freedom relies on a committee ..."  "


 I said the word freely in place of the word totally.  For me, there is not a considerable difference as I did not "totally", or "freely" admit anything.  If anything I declared, or said, that I do not think a person or committee removed anyone's freedom by not allowing them to get on an airplane.

 Why do you think one's freedom is removed if they are told not to get on a plane?
 
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #46 - 04/10/20 at 19:31:24
 
Why do you think one's freedom is removed if they are told not to get on a plane?

Are saying it's Not?
Being denied access to a mode of transportation ISN'T infringing on a person's freedom?
It's a RESTRICTION isn't it?
A far cry from enhanced freedom, right?
How you can demand an explanation for what is clear and obvious is amazing.

Ohhh, waitaminnitt,, you're trying to pretend he's saying
All of someone's freedom has been removed if they can't fly, right?

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Eegore
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #47 - 04/10/20 at 19:45:05
 
"Are saying it's Not?"

 Yes that is what I am saying.  I am saying that, to me, one still has their freedom even if they can't get on an airplane, or in a cab, or a train.  They can still seek alternatives, sue, do something.



Being denied access to a mode of transportation ISN'T infringing on a person's freedom?

 I would say it's closer to "infringing" than "removing" as I think the removal of freedom would include all other things, like walking away pissed off.  



It's a RESTRICTION isn't it?

 Yes.



A far cry from enhanced freedom, right?"

 Yes.

 So now that we know that our definitions are different, can we move on?  Or do we need to re-hash our opinions more with the full knowledge that they aren't going to change?

 I for one would like to know what changes you would like to see specific to 42 U.S. Code § 264 which makes a lot of these, removals, restrictions, infringements, opposite of enhancements, etc. etc. etc. part of the structure of modern US law.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #48 - 04/11/20 at 09:05:43
 
How many actually KNOW what was said? How many only hear the daily totals, and never understand that other problems were the actual CAUSE of death? Yeah, inorance, in spite of fact being out there..
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #49 - 04/11/20 at 09:39:48
 
"How many actually KNOW what was said? How many only hear the daily totals, and never understand that other problems were the actual CAUSE of death? Yeah, inorance, in spite of fact being out there..

 Considering you are either unaware of what provisional coding means, or are choosing to ignore that part, I would say plenty of people don't "KNOW" what was said.

 But if I were orchestrating a strategy to instill fear I would definitely not hand the strategy out to millions of people and rely on ignorance.  I would make it much easier on myself and not say a word.  Why ignore the part about how abysmally poor of a decision it is to notify millions of your plan?  It's like telling a few million people I plan to jump out of the closet and scare my domestic cohabitation sentient being and rely on ignorance of the masses so my roommate won't know I plan on jumping out of the closet.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #50 - 04/11/20 at 13:26:17
 
Kinda like Biden throwing himself a Surprise birthday party? Odds are, he would Still be surprised,,
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #51 - 04/11/20 at 13:27:04
 
Are we gonna have an
Efficiency of government debate?
Maybe she wasnt supposed to spill the beans,,
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #52 - 04/11/20 at 15:01:53
 
Eegore wrote on 04/11/20 at 09:39:48:
"How many actually KNOW what was said? How many only hear the daily totals, and never understand that other problems were the actual CAUSE of death? Yeah, inorance, in spite of fact being out there..

 Considering you are either unaware of what provisional coding means, or are choosing to ignore that part, I would say plenty of people don't "KNOW" what was said.

 But if I were orchestrating a strategy to instill fear I would definitely not hand the strategy out to millions of people and rely on ignorance.  I would make it much easier on myself and not say a word.  



All TPTB need is a body count and it is game, set, match for the uninformed masses who are unable to think critically.

Best regards,
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I don't make the rules, I just know what they are.....




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Eegore
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #53 - 04/11/20 at 19:12:33
 

"Are we gonna have an
Efficiency of government debate?
Maybe she wasnt supposed to spill the beans,, "


 
 Then why publicly post it online prior to her press statement?  

 They accidentally fully disclosed procedure there too.  All I'm saying is this process seems way too poor of a method to say fear is the primary driving factor and not other reasons.

 Is it most likely a bad decision?  Yes.  

 I just don't think fear is why they are doing it.  As for ignorance I think the real issue is that people heard this and assumed, without doing any research, that provisional coding is how the CDC releases mortality rates.
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #54 - 04/11/20 at 19:33:33
 
Okay. Why Knowingly put out figures that aren't Just wrong, but unnecessarily wrong? They Know they are attributing deaths to CV that simply aren't, they are Instructing people to Do That, and I'm not seeing the mortality rate being tempered by the number of asymptomatic.. SO, Someone is doing their best to make it Look worse than it is. If fear isn't what they want, what's your best guess?
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #55 - 04/11/20 at 20:29:14
 
I guess someone kinda Had to admit it..
It was coming out..
But who is actually making the point that the numbers are lies?
I don't watch T.V.news, but I doubt anyone is talking about it.
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #56 - 04/11/20 at 23:50:53
 
"Why Knowingly put out figures that aren't Just wrong, but unnecessarily wrong?"

 The CDC is not using this provisional coding for the purpose of "putting out" numbers.  It is the opposite, it is data collection categorized in a way that it is classified specifically for change.  



"I guess someone kinda Had to admit it..
It was coming out.."


 Yeah, provisional coding changes have been done for decades so I image someone would have known about it in this case considering the scale of the disease.



"But who is actually making the point that the numbers are lies?"

 Anyone that knows what provisional coding is would know it's not intended for definitive release information.  Literally the word provisional means it can be changed later.  Why is it the CDC's issue if other people are idiots?  

 Provisional coding, historically, on the initial phase is inclusionary.  So there is, with provisional coding, the largest data set that can be gained with associated factors.  So historically, provisional coding, has had huge data pools that are cut into pieces.  This isn't the first time this has been done.

 This has been done with, from what I have been exposed to, Avian, West Nile and H1N1, the initial data pools are gigantic and then categorized.  Many get removed from the final infection and mortality rates.  This is why official CDC information takes years to get, you don't get 2019 final statistics until 2022 or later for instance.

 This process I have seen before and not really seen signs of provisional coding, specifically provisional coding and no other coding, like West Nile, to be a statistic that is publicly released in the first place, however the information is public.  The difference is West Nile didn't get on the nightly news and no other President has had CDC members up at press conferences talking about this particular issue, specifically this issue and no other issue.

 My guess is that it is implemented now to do what it historically has always been used for, and that is to create a large data pool.  This metric is possibly, and likely used in funding analysis so I imagine that helps the CDC a lot.

 They mentioned that there are pneumonia patients being classified as exclusively pneumonia that may have been SARS-COV-2.  There has to be a coding method to include these and that is why this particular code was described as being implemented.

 Now has it been misinterpreted?  Absolutely.  Can it be abused? Yes.

 Should the CDC change their procedures that they have used, reliably, for decades because people won't educate themselves?  I don't think so.  I think they should do what they have been: be forthright about their data collection methods.  
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« Last Edit: 04/12/20 at 02:59:17 by Eegore »  
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #57 - 04/12/20 at 00:44:37
 
"This section on the death certificate is for reporting the sequence of conditions that led directly to death. The immediate cause of death, which is the disease or condition that directly preceded death and is not necessarily the underlying cause of death (UCOD), should be reported on line a. The conditions that led to the immediate cause of death should be reported in a logical sequence in terms of time and etiology below it."

"When a death is due to COVID–19, it is likely the UCOD and thus, it should be reported on the lowest line used in Part I of the death certificate."


 Based off of this, a public document, I would say that the provisional coding is not an attempt to cover-up leading mortality cause.  If you filed this type of paperwork you would see that the lowest line is not typically what would be considered the cause of death.

 I don't exactly have issue with the examples provided in the appendix of VSRG Ro#03, what would you change?
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #58 - 04/12/20 at 05:17:16
 
Bear with me here for a second but this is why the secretary of defense is usually not a military person. The reason is because a military person, having seen the horrors of war, may be hesitant to order soldiers into battle. That’s why they are often political appointees.

Such it is political leadership. The nation cannot be run by an economist. It also cannot be run by a virologist. It must be run by a political leader who balances the needs of the people against the advice from two competing schools of thought.

The people at the CDC live for this. This is their Nirvana. Everything they have studied for years is coming to fruition right before their eyes. It would be impossible for them not to become enthralled with this virus and overestimate it’s destructive ability. They are like kids on Christmas day.

The same is true for an economist. The millions and millions of variables right in front of him give him the ability to play with his excel sheet miles till the cows come home.

The leader in charge has to balance these two. I read a story about how wonderful the mayor of San Francisco was compared to how poor the mayor of New York was. Maybe that’s true in this situation. But the next event might be relatively minor and the mayor of San Francisco, remembering her “success“ during this virus, may demand draconian measures completely uncalled for.

It’s not an easy task and I don’t envy anyone in charge. Our company‘s CEO has made decisions that I would not want to be the one responsible for making. But somebody has to do it.

On this Easter Sunday, I’m going to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and assumed they analyze the information presented them and made the best decision possible based upon the cards on the table in front of them.
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Re: The policy is, lie
Reply #59 - 04/12/20 at 06:56:37
 
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