SuzukiSavage.com - Weakest link in the "starter chain"?

RocketScienceSmurf

Senior Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 268
Sweden
Gender: male

Weakest link in the "starter chain"?
03/02/20 at 07:22:51

I consider replacing the lead acid battery with a LiFePo4 one and skip the decompression system. Lets say for arguments sake that the piston has stopped on a compression cycle and that the starter tries to start the bike at the worst possible time in the compression cycle. What will happen? Since a fully charged LiFePo-battery can supply a good amount of current we assume that is not the weakest point. What about the gears? Do I risk destroying the starter gears? Or are the windings on the starter motor the most likely place of failure?

Back to top

IP Logged

srinath

Serious Thumper

Offline

I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 5349

Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain"?
Reply #1 - 03/02/20 at 07:46:12

RocketScienceSmurf wrote on 03/02/20 at 07:22:51:

I consider replacing the lead acid battery with a LiFePo4 one and skip the decompression system. Lets say for arguments sake that the piston has stopped on a compression cycle and that the starter tries to start the bike at the worst possible time in the compression cycle. What will happen? Since a fully charged LiFePo-battery can supply a good amount of current we assume that is not the weakest point. What about the gears? Do I risk destroying the starter gears? Or are the windings on the starter motor the most likely place of failure?

No, usual failure in that situation would be the engine case where the idler gear pivot pin is and its rather thin and would break out of the case.
Cool.
Srinath.

Back to top

IP Logged

Gary_in_NJ Serious Thumper Offline LS650 Cafe Racer Posts: 2625 Amongst the Twisty Roads	Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain"? Reply #2 - 03/02/20 at 08:42:03 I haven't used a decomp in 4 years. I've yet to find the supposed dead spot.
Back to top	A life-time student of motorcycling. LS650 Cafe, DRZ400SM, FZ6N, SV650S, CB900C, Ducati ST2, CB550F-SS My LS650=> http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Left.JPG IP Logged

srinath

Serious Thumper

Offline

I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 5349

Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain"?
Reply #3 - 03/02/20 at 10:18:20

Gary_in_NJ wrote on 03/02/20 at 08:42:03:

I haven't used a decomp in 4 years. I've yet to find the supposed dead spot.

I've often wondered what causes that pivot to break itself out, I have had 2 bikes with that same problem. I thought it was a backfire that spins the crank backward while the starter is spinning it forward.

Cool.
Srinath.

Back to top

IP Logged

Gary_in_NJ Serious Thumper Offline LS650 Cafe Racer Posts: 2625 Amongst the Twisty Roads	Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain"? Reply #4 - 03/02/20 at 10:52:26 To the OP.... Why do you need to disconnect the decomp? I removed it because there was no longer room for it under my modified tank. I really don't see any other reason to eliminate it. Are you installing a custom fuel tank?
Back to top	A life-time student of motorcycling. LS650 Cafe, DRZ400SM, FZ6N, SV650S, CB900C, Ducati ST2, CB550F-SS My LS650=> http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Left.JPG IP Logged

Ruttly

Serious Thumper

Offline

Thumpers Rule

Posts: 4997
Manteca , CA
Gender: male

Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain"?
Reply #5 - 03/02/20 at 11:14:22

Gary is correct , I have never needed to use my manual decomp. Even if by chance it were to get stuck at TDC , with key off put it in first gear and pull the bike backwards till it stops and now you are just past TDC. Years and years of owning FSS , BSA , YAMAHA , HONDA , SUZUKI you tend to learn all the handy little tricks to get them started !

Back to top

The Topic Terminator

IP Logged

verslagen1

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28752
L.A. California
Gender: male

Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain"?
Reply #6 - 03/02/20 at 12:08:31

srinath wrote on 03/02/20 at 10:18:20:

Gary_in_NJ wrote on 03/02/20 at 08:42:03:

I haven't used a decomp in 4 years. I've yet to find the supposed dead spot.

I've often wondered what causes that pivot to break itself out, I have had 2 bikes with that same problem. I thought it was a backfire that spins the crank backward while the starter is spinning it forward.

Cool.
Srinath.

only occurs in models w/out the torque limiter.

Back to top

Versey's Place
Tech Section Index

IP Logged

verslagen1

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28752
L.A. California
Gender: male

Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain
Reply #7 - 03/02/20 at 12:11:21

Ruttly wrote on 03/02/20 at 11:14:22:

Gary is correct , I have never needed to use my manual decomp. Even if by chance it were to get stuck at TDC , with key off put it in first gear and pull the bike backwards till it stops and now you are just past TDC. Years and years of owning FSS , BSA , YAMAHA , HONDA , SUZUKI you tend to learn all the handy little tricks to get them started !

If you don't have the torque limiter, you are in danger of busting teeth or bosses.

Even if you do have the torque limiter, going forward is a better option.

You can tell when you've gone far enough by twisting the decomp lever and when the exhaust rocker moves and hits it, you've gone far enough.

Back to top

Versey's Place
Tech Section Index

IP Logged

srinath

Serious Thumper

Offline

I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 5349

Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain
Reply #8 - 03/02/20 at 14:47:05

verslagen1 wrote on 03/02/20 at 12:11:21:

If you don't have the torque limiter, you are in danger of busting teeth or bosses.

Lemme guess - these would be the 86's ? 4 speeds or just the 86's.
The same ones that had the collapsing airbox to carb hose cos it was smooth ? Not Gridded ?
Yea I had a couple of those, in fact I have only had 2 non 4 speed savages. One I got with broken front end 10-12 yrs ago, another 3 months ago.

Cool.
Srinath.

Back to top

IP Logged

verslagen1

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28752
L.A. California
Gender: male

Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain
Reply #9 - 03/02/20 at 15:07:20

srinath wrote on 03/02/20 at 14:47:05:

verslagen1 wrote on 03/02/20 at 12:11:21:

If you don't have the torque limiter, you are in danger of busting teeth or bosses.

Lemme guess - these would be the 86's ? 4 speeds or just the 86's.
The same ones that had the collapsing airbox to carb hose cos it was smooth ? Not Gridded ?
Yea I had a couple of those, in fact I have only had 2 non 4 speed savages. One I got with broken front end 10-12 yrs ago, another 3 months ago.

Cool.
Srinath.

All 4 speeds and maybe 5 speeds up to '95

Back to top

Versey's Place
Tech Section Index

IP Logged

srinath

Serious Thumper

Offline

I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 5349

Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain
Reply #10 - 03/02/20 at 15:22:16

verslagen1 wrote on 03/02/20 at 15:07:20:

All 4 speeds and maybe 5 speeds up to '95

I thought 95 was the return year for the savage and was 5 speed from then on.
86-88 4 speed, 95 on 5 speed. 89-94 - no savage ? Or was it just US that didn't get the 89-94's.
So in reality when did they go 5 speed in the world ?

Cool.
Srinath.

Back to top

IP Logged

Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 4997 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain"? Reply #11 - 03/02/20 at 16:37:20 I have read somewhere that 86 to 88 are 4 speeds , not sure how true it is. The torque limiter was introduced on 96 year model.
Back to top	The Topic Terminator IP Logged

LANCER Serious Thumper Alliance Member Online Savage Beast Performance Parts Posts: 10586 Oklahoma Gender:	Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain"? Reply #12 - 03/02/20 at 17:01:22 ‘86-89 for US imports were 4 speeds, with ‘95-current 5 spd. I’ve seen info posted here in the past indicating changes made in ‘90-94 models sold elsewhere in the world, but don’t remember the details now.
Back to top	IP Logged

Armen

Serious Thumper

Offline

Half-Witted
Wrench-Jockey from
Jersey

Posts: 1431

Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain"?
Reply #13 - 03/02/20 at 18:18:14

Have a Shorai on mine. Have to say, sometimes it comes up on compression and stops. I have the stock decomp lever not attached to anything. I can reach over and hold it down til the piston makes it over TDC.
Mine is some kind of mongrel. Titled as a '96, def a 5 speed, but had the non-groovy starter gear set-up. I modified stuff and now have the sexier starter gears.

Back to top

In theory, theory and reality are the same. In reality, they aren't...

IP Logged

RocketScienceSmurf

Senior Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 268
Sweden
Gender: male

Re: Weakest link in the "starter chain
Reply #14 - 03/02/20 at 23:03:43

Great info from everyone. Thank you all.

Is it possible from this picture to tell if I have the torque limiter or not? The bike supposedly is a -94 but it is a 5 speed engine and I can't say for certain if the engine is the original one or if it has been replaced. By bike seem to have lived a turbulent and hard life.

Back to top

SAM_0217.png

IP Logged