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Big Cam - Web 340b Install (Read 687 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #30 - 12/16/19 at 18:46:22
 
Web supplies break-in lube for the cam.  It looks like jelly.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #31 - 12/16/19 at 18:47:28
 
I applied a very thin coat of sealant on the head cover.  It’s very important to keep the sealant away from the cam bearings.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #32 - 12/16/19 at 18:48:32
 
I use this tool to roll on the sealant, just like a paint roller.  It works great.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #33 - 12/16/19 at 18:49:33
 
The sealant squeeze-out was very small, just the way it should be.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #34 - 12/16/19 at 18:50:45
 
For break-in, Web recommends 30 weight petroleum oil.  I can’t find that stuff here in the islands.  I had to settle on Castrol GTX 20W-50 motorcycle oil rated SG.  I’m good with that.  It’s for motorcycles, it’s for air-cooled engines, it’s OK for wet clutches, it’s rated SG (plenty zinc), and it’s dino oil.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #35 - 12/16/19 at 18:54:50
 
After the engine was buttoned up and reinstalled in the motorcycle, it was time to check compression.  Prior to the cam installation, my cranking pressure was 245 psi.  Too high.  I would prefer 190 psi, the safe limit for 92 octane pump gas.  One reason I installed the bigger cam was to lower the cranking pressure.  The later closing intake valve should reduce dynamic compression.  With the cam retarded 5°, the intake valve closes even later.  My cranking pressure came in at 220 psi.  Still not where I want it, but certainly better.

It was time to see how it runs.  It fired right up and settled in to a nice 1500 rpm idle.  I didn’t even adjust the carburetor.  Oil pressure seemed about the same as it was before the mods.  It ran fine, low end torque felt about the same.  It made a bit more tappet clickity-clack.  No loud clunks, clanks or screeches.  No sudden stoppage.  Things were lookin rosy.

After a very conservative 250-mile break-in, it was time to take a look at things.  I checked the valve lash and did a visual inspection of the cam lobes.  The intake valves were still about .004”, the exhaust valves needed adjustment.  Cam lobes looked good.  I removed the plug over the intake rocker arm shaft to see if the void was getting any oil.  There was a nice puddle in the bottom of the void.  I think that’s better.  The oil should wick along the shaft to provide a little lubrication on the left side, which by design has little or no splash lube.   Bonus!  No leaks.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #36 - 12/16/19 at 18:57:07
 
How does it run?

Street manners are pretty good.  It starts right up.  I think it starts better.  Initially, I thought the fuel mileage was way off, but after living with it for a while I really don’t see much of an increase in fuel consumption.  Throttle response is good, and low speed torque is just fine.  The low speed torque seems a little less than what I had with the stock DR cam but still ample.  It has excellent low speed performance.

On the freeway, it has superb acceleration.  Screw it on at 70 mph and acceleration is brisk, a real arm stretcher.  Very easy to merge or to pass a big rig.  That also holds true for country two-lane roads.  You can get around slower vehicles with confidence.

I evaluate my performance mods using a GoPro camera and stopwatch.  I record my 2nd gear 4K to 7K time and then review the video with stopwatch in hand.  Prior to installing the 340b cam, my 4K to 7K time was right at 2.90 seconds.  With the 340b, the 4K to 7K is slightly slower, about 2.95 seconds.  But the power band is now extended all the way to 8K.  I haven’t tried taking it past 8K, that’s the limit on my tach.

Comparing the 5K to 7.5K times shows the 340b is slightly faster at 2.88 seconds vs 2.95 seconds for the stock DR cam.  That makes sense.
 
So, with the cam retarded 5° from the factory marks, and no other tuning, it pretty much runs with the stock DR650 cam up to 7K, and then continues to pull strong past 7K all the way to 8K.  I’m using 92 octane pump gas with no octane booster.  I haven’t tried any jetting or ignition timing changes.

It runs well, but to be honest I anticipated a big bump in steam.   I suspect that the 4K to 7K time would improve somewhat if I advanced the cam timing back to the factory marks.  That will close the intake valve sooner and increase my cranking pressure.  It might put me back on the octane booster.  I plan to try it to see what happens.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #37 - 12/16/19 at 18:58:54
 
I also think I might be reaching the limit of the stock airbox filter.  The filter only has a 25 square inch footprint.  That’s small.  I might be able to squeeze a bit more out of the engine with a larger filter.

My modified stock muffler could be holding things back too.  I’ve done just about all I can to the muffler without turning it into a knarly, obnoxious beast.

The current modified airbox and muffler are still quiet, just a bit noisier than stock.  I don’t attract attention and my neighbors aren’t hatin me.  A few weeks back one neighbor even commended me for keepin it quiet.  Neighborhood harmony, ain’t it sweet!

Looks to me like there’s not a lot more to be had through improved volumetric efficiency unless I go to the dark side and start making a lot of noise.  My compression is at the limit and I don’t think there’s much more I can do to the induction and exhaust.  I plan to try a modification to the airbox that will permit using a cylindrical filter with about a 55 square inch footprint, but I’m sure that will amp up the noise.

From this point on, my horsepower options seem limited.  I could try installing larger valves and take my cylinder head to Stage III, but the muffler and airbox might prevent the larger valves from doing their intended job.  Increasing displacement is an option with proven potential.  Adding 50 cubic centimeters should improve the low end.  It already has superb low end so I think more displacement would be be a lot of fun.

Decisions, decisions.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #38 - 12/16/19 at 19:03:00
 
If you’re lookin for a new cam, the Web 340b is a viable candidate, but you will have to tear the engine down to install it.  I also think that life expectancy will be significantly reduced.  The heavy springs combined with my natural inclination to take the tach past 7K will certainly take their toll.  But hey, it’s a hotrod.   I’ll do periodic posts to let you know how it holds up.

For the average Savage rider, I don’t think this 340b cam offers anything over the stock DR650 camshaft (at least when the 340b is retarded 5°).  The stock DR cam is a bolt-in cam and doesn’t require changing springs or shortening guides.  You can bolt it into a stock engine, plug & play.
 
But my project is a never-ending search for more power.  That mandates that I keep trying new things.  So, the 340b is a good addition for me, but not for everyone.   For now, it’s got me off the octane booster, and the bike is running great, and I think it will respond well to some tuning.

As always, thanks to the Fastman for help & advice.  Also, a shout out to Batman for bringing up the rocker arm oiling issue.  I don't think I would have looked at the rocker oiling if he hadn't brought it to my attention.

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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #39 - 12/17/19 at 07:19:10
 
As usual, a thread with an incredible journey and conclusion. Thanks for the write-up.
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #40 - 12/17/19 at 12:22:52
 
Wow!

My jaw drops whenever I read a DBM experiment.  Impressive work.
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #41 - 12/17/19 at 12:36:58
 
This is really interesting. Being new to the 650, are there links to info on installing a stock DR650 cam?
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #42 - 12/17/19 at 22:07:44
 
Mahalo Gary & Ohio.

Dennis, I'm sorry, I don't have a link to a detailed guide for installation of the stock DR650 cam.  I do have a link to a report I did awhile back.  It has a few tips that might be useful.  The stock DR650 cam is a bargain and I found it to be a pretty good bumpstick.  It's easy to install.  If you've got some basic mechanical skills and a manual you shouldn't have any trouble.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1525327311
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #43 - 12/18/19 at 07:08:03
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 12/17/19 at 22:07:44:
Mahalo Gary & Ohio.

Dennis, I'm sorry, I don't have a link to a detailed guide for installation of the stock DR650 cam.  I do have a link to a report I did awhile back.  It has a few tips that might be useful.  The stock DR650 cam is a bargain and I found it to be a pretty good bumpstick.  It's easy to install.  If you've got some basic mechanical skills and a manual you shouldn't have any trouble.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1525327311


I found your thread earlier. Good stuff.

I’ve been building and restoring bikes for 50+ years so no problem doing the cam change. I really was more interested in the performance which you outlined pretty well. It’s interesting to me that the Savage S40 is around 30HP and the DR is mid 40’s. Wondering what the HP boost would be with the DR cam and stage one mods. I’m planning to do the standard performance mods and a Mikuni flat slide carb. Thinking it should gain a few HP. I’ve found the flat slide carbs to be much more responsive than the round ones in other bikes I’ve upgraded BTW.
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Re: Big Cam - Web 340b Install
Reply #44 - 12/18/19 at 08:16:37
 
Dennisgb wrote on 12/18/19 at 07:08:03:
Wondering what the HP boost would be with the DR cam and stage one mods. I’m planning to do the standard performance mods and a Mikuni flat slide carb. Thinking it should gain a few HP. I’ve found the flat slide carbs to be much more responsive than the round ones in other bikes I’ve upgraded BTW.


There are some big differences between the DR & LS. First off, Suzuki intentionally restricted air flow through the LS engine via an exhaust divider/restriction. Secondly, the DR cams and valve springs allow for a higher redline. A lot of power is made in those extra ~1,000 rpm. Getting your horsepower into the upper 30's is mostly a bolt-on endeavor.

A high compression piston, cams and a good porting will get you to the upper 30's. Getting your horsepower above 40 takes great attention to detail and know-how (thanks to the forum engine builders for sharing).
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My LS650=> http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Left.JPG
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