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WebsterMark

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Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid
Reply #15 - 12/10/19 at 05:30:14

My take away on what I've read and seen so far; to say there was no bias in the dozens and dozens of examples of either illegal, or at best, poor execution of the FBI and other agencies job functions is not believable.

Also of note as Strassel points out, the IG found no "documentary evidence" of bias meaning he found no email or memo detailing the bias. I would point out during the limited hearings I watched, the Democrats response to the Republican's point no one had direct evidence, no one could say they hear a single direct command of instruction by Trump, that in cases like this, there is rarely an a clearly defined smoking gun. If true in one complicated case, why not true in the other.

It's simply not believable that at every fork in the road, the government agencies made the mistake that always favored one political party. The only logical conclusion is government agencies at the direction of their supervisors at a high level, used various methods to harm the Presidential campaign of one specific individual.

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Mavigogun

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Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid
Reply #16 - 12/10/19 at 05:53:31

WebsterMark wrote on 12/10/19 at 05:30:14:

It's simply not believable that at every fork in the road, the government agencies made the mistake that always favored one political party. The only logical conclusion is-

The only logical conclusion, given all we know, is that the FBI was not mistaken, acting to investigate crimes by Trump et al. This is what we should hope for from our law enforcement and guardians of democracy- to investigate crimes down every branch... until the rat is cornered. Mark champions the rat and demagogues pursuit of justice.

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WebsterMark

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Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid
Reply #17 - 12/10/19 at 06:15:02

John Solomon

To understand just how shoddy the FBI’s work was in securing a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant targeting the Trump campaign, you only need to read an obscure attachment to Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz’s report.

Appendix 1 identifies the total violations by the FBI of the so-called Woods Procedures, the process by which the bureau verifies information and assures the FISA court its evidence is true.

The Appendix identifies a total of 51 Woods procedure violations from the FISA application the FBI submitted to the court authorizing surveillance of former Trump campaign aide Carter Page starting in October 2016.

A whopping nine of those violations fell into the category called: “Supporting document shows that the factual assertion is
inaccurate.”

For those who don’t speak IG parlance, it means the FBI made nine false assertions to the FISA court. In short, what the bureau said was contradicted by the evidence in its official file.

To put that in perspective, former Trump aides Mike Flynn and George Papadopoulos were convicted of making single false statements to the bureau. One went to jail already, and the other awaits sentencing.

The FBI made nine false statements to the court.

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srinath

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Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid
Reply #18 - 12/10/19 at 06:50:58

WebsterMark wrote on 12/10/19 at 05:30:14:

It's simply not believable that at every fork in the road, the government agencies made the mistake that always favored one political party. The only logical conclusion is government agencies at the direction of their supervisors at a high level, used various methods to harm the Presidential campaign of one specific individual.

I would suggest another line of thinking here - Govt employees tend to be against the anti establishment 1/2s of either party. I would expect them to be very much for the "big govt" part of each party.
No higher power direction needed, the newer and hence junior are likely more for the "big govt" aspect of thinks seeing as they're just beginning to relax after landing in their cushy gubbamint job, and here comes along someone who wants to cut them …

Cool.
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Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid
Reply #19 - 12/10/19 at 07:42:46

Mavigogun wrote on 12/10/19 at 05:26:21:

Trump looked into the camera on live TV and asked for Russian interference in the election.

Trump's campaign shared polling and demographics in key districts with Russian intelligence.

Trump-contracted social engineering company Cambridge Analytica coordinated with Russian State propaganda machine The Internet Research Agency to influence the vote; Trump himself repeated Internet Research Agency propaganda.

The Independent Counsel demonstrated multiple Trump campaign members lied about contact with Russian operatives; several have been sentenced for related crimes and are serving time in prison right now.

The Independent Counsel determined Trump obstructed Counsel's investigation of Russia's concerted effort to impact the US election outcome.

---

These are just a few matters of record- not conjecture, not supposition, not obvious conclusions on the order of hearing a gunshot then seeing a person with a smoking gun standing over a corpse with a fresh bullet hole. These are just a handful of facts out of the pile.

Trump solicited Russian help with his 2016 bid for the Presidency; he coordinated with that effort. Since then, he has solicited Ukraine and China to take part in the 2020 election. The FBI investigation into candidate Trump's campaign has been completely validated.

Trump is a criminal, violated our trust and the Constitution. We don't know yet if Republican efforts will prevent holding Trump to account for what he has done, while he remains in office. We just don't know. What we know, without any shade of doubt, is that those of you who are complicit in covering for Trump will carry that stain forever.

And tried to sell them a bridge too...... OMG, folks really believe that, and 5 hours later Hillary's computer was hacked.....sure, they were just waiting to get a OK, that is so nice of them...... Grin

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WebsterMark

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Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid
Reply #20 - 12/10/19 at 07:47:21

srinath wrote on 12/10/19 at 06:50:58:

WebsterMark wrote on 12/10/19 at 05:30:14:

It's simply not believable that at every fork in the road, the government agencies made the mistake that always favored one political party. The only logical conclusion is government agencies at the direction of their supervisors at a high level, used various methods to harm the Presidential campaign of one specific individual.

I would suggest another line of thinking here - Govt employees tend to be against the anti establishment 1/2s of either party. I would expect them to be very much for the "big govt" part of each party.
No higher power direction needed, the newer and hence junior are likely more for the "big govt" aspect of thinks seeing as they're just beginning to relax after landing in their cushy gubbamint job, and here comes along someone who wants to cut them …

Cool.
Srinath.

If that were true Sri, where was the 'whistleblower' in the Obama administration over Fast and Furious, over the Iran money, over the hundreds of actions any Presidential administration takes on a near daily basis.
No, this was primarily a partisan political act followed closely by motivations of a class of people who's livelihood depends upon the President of either party bowing to their demands and ignoring the citizens who elected them.

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Mavigogun

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Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid
Reply #21 - 12/10/19 at 08:21:52

WebsterMark wrote on 12/10/19 at 07:47:21:

No, this was primarily a partisan political act-

Mark is like a broken clock- occasionally, momentarily right by accident of circumstance. The FBI investigation was most definitely a partisan act- on behalf of our democracy and Republic. The other partisans are Russia and its co-conspirators. Like Mark here, they are declared enemies of both democracy and our Republic.

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srinath

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Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid
Reply #22 - 12/10/19 at 08:23:55

WebsterMark wrote on 12/10/19 at 05:30:14:

If that were true Sri, where was the 'whistleblower' in the Obama administration over Fast and Furious, over the Iran money, over the hundreds of actions any Presidential administration takes on a near daily basis.

Those weren't anti big govt moves - or not from a president who wants to shrink govt. I cant explain it, but Obama was the darling of the career diplomat/bureaucrat. The republicans were the govt shutdown people, which I hated too BTW. However, for a bureaucrat, its not an extential threat going to the president.

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WebsterMark

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Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid
Reply #23 - 12/10/19 at 10:28:43

I can explain it. Obama was the darling of the career diplomat and bureaucrat because they are primarily liberal on the political spectrum. They tolerated Bush because he was, despite being on the other side of the political spectrum, nonetheless part of the "club". Donald Trump on the other hand, was a third-party candidate that dragged the Republican Party kicking and screaming to his side.

People, in general, will do almost anything to maintain their comfortable status quo and the members of the DC swamp are no different than anyone else. That's what we're seeing here.

Regardless, this increases Trump's reelection odds. He is likely to be President until 2024.

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Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid
Reply #24 - 12/10/19 at 10:56:25

WebsterMark wrote on 12/10/19 at 10:28:43:

Regardless, this increases Trump's reelection odds. He is likely to be President until 2024.

Yea, I'm getting this feeling too, and bureaucrats run the world, if you don't believe me, try going to the DMV and taking a look down there. Pumping the bureaucracy and then milking it for all its worth is the game of gubbamint. If Trump loses, the DMV has won, it will extract its lb of flesh. If Trump wins, the DMV just will come back madder in 2024. In both cases we lose.

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28710 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid Reply #25 - 12/10/19 at 11:03:50 If Trump has ever talked about the DMV, I never heard it. I'm certain Trump has never been to the DMV or had any personal experience with them. I don't think I've ever seen him drive a car.
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srinath

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Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid
Reply #26 - 12/10/19 at 11:23:27

Serowbot wrote on 12/10/19 at 11:03:50:

If Trump has ever talked about the DMV, I never heard it.

I'm certain Trump has never been to the DMV or had any personal experience with them.
I don't think I've ever seen him drive a car. Grin

Yea we need to send him to one to have a "re-education through DMV" like the rest of us. He needs to get stuck in one till he comes out with a title and registration to his limo with 1 little error, where the seller signed the wrong line. Yea, he needs to go do that and then report back.

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Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid
Reply #27 - 12/10/19 at 12:18:49

WebsterMark wrote on 12/10/19 at 10:28:43:

Regardless, this increases Trump's reelection odds.

Disregarding the record is a poor strategy for prediction. A clear majority of voters support impeachment- far higher portion than at the same stage of the Nixon impeachment. Contrary to Mark's claim, more people are not now motivated to support Trump. Those people who don't care about Trump's crimes were not going to be moved. Folks who didn't vote for Trump are certainly not moving their support toward him. As Republicans electing to bow out of Congress demonstrates, the room for movement is away, not toward. These proceedings can only harm Trump's chances to escape jail through a second term.

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raydawg Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 11551 pacific northwest Gender:	Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid Reply #28 - 12/10/19 at 12:25:00 These proceedings can only harm Trump's chances to escape jail through a second term. OMG....F'N CRAZY....... The libs are already interfering in the 2020 elections..... We need to charge them, and abuse of power too.......
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srinath Serious Thumper Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 5349	Re: IG Report: Russia Investigation Valid Reply #29 - 12/10/19 at 12:30:00 raydawg wrote on 12/10/19 at 12:25:00: We need to charge them, and abuse of power too....... Yes, so they can be like the hybrid cars they love, just hook em up to 220. When they glow in the dark, that's when they're fully charged. Cool. Srinath.
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