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Impeachment boomerang (Read 215 times)
Mavigogun
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Re: Impeachment boomerang
Reply #30 - 12/06/19 at 09:58:22
 
WebsterMark wrote on 12/06/19 at 08:10:55:
Details below but huge job gains last month, 3.5% unemployment, 3.1% wage growth.


There's been a lot of analysis of such numbers, including a view of economic trends since the economic collapse of 2007.  

The unemployment figure must be considered in light of what it represents- a shrinking workforce, as a considerable portion of the workforce has left the market.   As with any trend statistic, by curtailing the period, most any narrative can be advanced.   The Labor Force Participation Rate is about 3% lower than the pre-rescission stabilized rate, and 4% under the 2000 high.   Of those employed, At-Will employment laws have combined with dynamic staffing practices, resulting in work insecurity and the requirement for multiple employment sources.

The year's wage growth started on target, reaching 4% in the second quarter- then falling over a full point before being buoyed by tepid holiday hiring.   Keep in mind wage growth lags far below the pre-recession trend line; combined with inflation, this amounts to effective purchase power loss- especially for the bottom half of earners, subject to radically inflating rents, and priced out of the housing market.

That said, the Trump Administration is only fractionally responsible for these outcomes, good and bad.   The tax cut stimulus proportionately impacted the highest earners, who mostly used the opportunity to buy back stock instead of capital investments; the consumer spending bump was transient.   Coupled with trade war losses, adjustment of what a previous Fed Chair once labeled "irrational exuberance", and growing policy liabilities, the direction of Administrative impact is uncertain.

Markets aren't big on uncertainty, as this week's response to Trump's suggestion that his Trade War with China will likely drag out beyond his first term testifies.

The Democrats are going to impeach the current President of this economy because he held up millions of dollars in aid destined for a corrupt country like Ukraine for a couple of weeks...

The preview of articles of impeachment include obstruction of justice in the Independent Counsel Inquiry, and bribery, among others.   Aid to Ukraine was only released after the plot was discovered.   Review of testimony and record before Congress has demonstrated clear violations of the US Constitution by the President.   The details are beyond the scope of easy address in a post such as this.

...because former VP Biden's son was making millions in an industry which he didn't know $hit about, was clearly hired for access to Biden and in a country where the entire Russian collusion BS had it's origins?


According to US intelligence, Putin was the motive force behind Russian interference in our elections.   The Ukrainian Conspiracy Theory has been thoroughly debunked, also by our intelligence agencies, with reports at the disposal of the President.

Without doubt, the employment of Hunter Biden was entirely about access to or currying favor with former Vice President Joe Biden.   The practice should be illegal; sadly, it is not.   Were there basis in law for taking action against the Bidens, the FBI would have been deployed to investigate, charges would have been filed.   There was not.   The President's acts- personally, and via his personal agents -were a violation of law and the Constitution, and are subject to impeachment and prosecution.

The total labor force participation was nearly unchanged at 63.2%, just a hair below October’s 63.3%, which had reflected the largest share of the working population employed or looking for work since 2013.

Examination of the zig-zaging Labor Participation Rate shows a mean level in close proximity of where it stabilized around late 2013- which was the bottom of a very long decent; while the peeks and troughs are still within less than half of a percent of that level, the recent high has been followed by the beginning of another lean down, and should be expected to continue as pre-Christmas highers leave the workforce.

The argument that voters should only care about impeachment based on their transient economic comfort estimates that we US citizens are willing to sell our democracy, Constitution and all- and is one we all should reject.   Clearly a portion of the Republican Party are banking on the electorate opting into complicity with Trump administration crimes, while others are leaving the party in disgust.   The Democrats have eschewed your calculus, Mark, putting the Republic above Party- and putting their faith in the integrity of the majority of the citizenry.   For all our sake, I hope they are right.   If they are wrong, you will be that much closer to your expressed desire to see our Union fall.    
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Re: Impeachment boomerang
Reply #31 - 12/06/19 at 10:03:15
 
Cherry picked economic numbers don't tell the whole story,...
Polls show people aren't feeling the tax cuts, or economic boost.
They are feeling anxiety over healthcare costs, stagnant wages, and dwindling middle class.
Job numbers are good because many people are working 2 and 3 jobs, often with no benefits or retirement.
These are the people that expected more from Trump and are disappointed in him giving himself and corporate America a big tax cut that they and their children will pay for.
MAGA, so far, has been very Trumpcentric...
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Re: Impeachment boomerang
Reply #32 - 12/06/19 at 10:15:44
 
People aint feeling anxiety, people (Me) is busy beating down recruiters who're not offering up better terms and $$$. Just my observation, the H1 fraud and abuse being removed from the market = better job prospects for IT workers like me.
Cool.
Srinath.
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Re: Impeachment boomerang
Reply #33 - 12/06/19 at 10:16:29
 
WebsterMark wrote on 12/06/19 at 09:53:03:
When I hear news stories where 'journalist' go out and find someone who is complaining that Trump's tariffs are hurting their business, I wonder what the news stations are going to do if Warren gets elected and elements of the Green New Deal are enacted?


The suggestion that these are fabricated accounts is baldly false- reports are many and diverse.   Prominently here in Houston, the engineering firm Schlumberger is being forced to relocate manufacturing to facilities being developed in Italy to assume what was US capacity.   This is far from the only story of lost jobs, lost business.   There are merchants confronted by pre-tarrif stock orders who are now stuck with inventory; priced out of the market, those orders represent existential loss.   A little good-faith research will reveal that the cause for doubt you suggest, Mark, is baseless.

We're going to trash the entire fossil fuel industry and the millions and millions of individual transactions every day that rely on the consistency of supply and price with zero negative impact on an economy with so many variables, they are impossible to understand?

It has become apparent to even the fossil fuel industry that the "trashing" of the entire environment amounts to a liability rivaling benefits.   The entire heavy marine transport industry is on the cusp of re-tooling to meet reduced sulfur emission standards in the coming year.  Transitions are not immediate.   Unknown complexity is a challenge we can and must face.   There will be negative impacts.   There will be positive impacts.   These are not "impossible to understand"; we see some of the solutions and consequences now, enough to start planning and building the path.    Like our mission to the moon, our determination was the deciding factor- not what we didn't know at the outset, or the complexity of the task.  

We have hard work to do- and those of us who will be around in the coming decades and generations  can not afford to indulge your excuses.
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Re: Impeachment boomerang
Reply #34 - 12/06/19 at 18:21:38
 
Media is stupid. They cherry pick stuff all the time. The chicken factory in Missouri where a few 100 illegals got deported, classic example, several 1000 turned up for a job fair they held the weekend after and all of em said they applied to there, never got a response - NPR simply never aired it.

They think Junta is said as Hunta - sadly that means they are pretty much stupid, all you can learn from the news (any standard commercial station) if they mention a city - say Cleveland a few times and say factory closing a few times - get onto face book, youtube, craigslist and look for yourself. Maybe a meteor hit it, maybe a tidal wave, maybe a car called a tide and a car called a meteor hit each other in the middle of town.

Main stream media was called Lame stream media in 2006-7 for cheering on the housing bubble. Very good reason behind it. They're flakier than a bowl of cereal.

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Re: Impeachment boomerang
Reply #35 - 12/06/19 at 18:48:46
 
srinath wrote on 12/06/19 at 18:21:38:
Media is stupid. They cherry pick stuff all the time. The chicken factory in Missouri where a few 100 illegals got deported, classic example, several 1000 turned up for a job fair they held the weekend after and all of em said they applied to there, never got a response - NPR simply never aired it.

They think Junta is said as Hunta - sadly that means they are pretty much stupid, all you can learn from the news (any standard commercial station) if they mention a city - say Cleveland a few times and say factory closing a few times - get onto face book, youtube, craigslist and look for yourself. Maybe a meteor hit it, maybe a tidal wave, maybe a car called a tide and a car called a meteor hit each other in the middle of town.

Main stream media was called Lame stream media in 2006-7 for cheering on the housing bubble. Very good reason behind it. They're flakier than a bowl of cereal.

Cool.
Srinath.


Again....to save energy, I will correct you with facts and truth.

YOU ARE A LIAR, AND A FRUCKING BHOLE IDIOT WHO KNOWS ONLY UTTERANCE OF LIES AND TALKING POINTS OF OTHER BHOLES, RACIST,SEXIST, HOMOPHOBIA..........DEPLORABLES!

We just added one more year of viable living, to the planet earth, and the polar ice caps, and polar bears, thanks to my energy saving effort....darn, Obama's BIG house just ate all that year up..... Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed
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Re: Impeachment boomerang
Reply #36 - 12/06/19 at 18:58:16
 

"Job numbers are good because many people are working 2 and 3 jobs, often with no benefits or retirement."

 So this is a big issue that is repeatedly dodged when economists ask the White House about how they get their numbers.  The labor statistics support it, economists predicted it, people say they are actively doing it, but for some reason it just isn't in the "numbers" when job status is brought up.

 As for lack of job issued retirement, this is common even in very positive economic trends.  I would dodge pensions like there's no tomorrow.
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Re: Impeachment boomerang
Reply #37 - 12/07/19 at 06:01:39
 
Eegore wrote on 12/06/19 at 18:58:16:
"Job numbers are good because many people are working 2 and 3 jobs, often with no benefits or retirement."

 So this is a big issue that is repeatedly dodged when economists ask the White House about how they get their numbers.  The labor statistics support it, economists predicted it, people say they are actively doing it, but for some reason it just isn't in the "numbers" when job status is brought up.

 As for lack of job issued retirement, this is common even in very positive economic trends.  I would dodge pensions like there's no tomorrow.





So let me first deal with the italicized part. More jobs per person does not lower the unemployment rate. Unemployment rolls are used to calculate this. Paying unemployment $$ = unemployment, now if your unemployment runs out cos you've not found a job in so long (like in 04 and again in 07 for me) then you don't get counted. But that's not happening now. 2 and 3 jobs per person is more reflective of labor force participation rate. That is a bit lower than the last time we hit 3.5% unemployment. So what does that mean. That is calculated by a different source. It is a survey of people. In 2000 we hit 3.7 and the participation rate was 67%. Both are historic numbers. Now we have 3.5 and 63% - you may claim there is more "discouraged" people. However that could also be inaccurate. You definitely have a 20+ yr older set of people. This number is perfectly mildly optimistic but if we see this number rise along with a corresponding rise in unemployment, that = concern. Otherwise, it just reflects people aging and retiring.

Now the lack of pensions - this is a trend, a near 40 yr trend in fact. Pensions are getting replaced with 401k It may be better, may not be. However what I don't agree with is, bringing in more workers due to the lower labor force participation rate, that would cause the people who have 2 and 3 jobs to just have 1. Soon enough, if the economy retreats, you have more unemployment. Now with high number of 2 and 3 job people, and low unemployment, we could well see a recession with nearly no change in the unemployment rate. I also predict the labor force participation rate will continue to fall as people age. Good sign. Retired people are retired for a reason - they're happier retired, would rather not work.
This is why I think brining in foreign workers to compensate for an aging population isn't the smart idea, learning how to cover that gap with multiple jobs, pulling unemployable and marginalized people into the work force, etc etc is where the smart ideas are. That allows for unemployment to stay super low, and even in a recession, never rise much. If you have a few million that work 2 jobs, when the economy loses a million jobs, the unemployment rate may not move at all. Excellent way to have a recession.

Cool.
Srinath.
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Re: Impeachment boomerang
Reply #38 - 12/12/19 at 11:03:22
 
As Spock would say: "Interesting....."

“I now recall speaking individually with Mr. Yermak [at the meeting], where I said that resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks,” Sondland said in his revised testimony.

Yermak, however, told Time that he had no recollection of any such conversation.

“Gordon and I were never alone together. We bumped into each other in the hallway next to the escalator, as I was walking out,” he said on the Warsaw meeting. “I remember – everything is fine with my memory – we talked about how well the meeting went. That’s all we talked about.”
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Re: Impeachment boomerang
Reply #39 - 12/12/19 at 12:07:07
 
Mark....if the democrats give the senate a chance to hold a trial, and they don't give it a FULL TRIAL, they will have blown a golden opportunity to call EVERYONE to testify under oath.....

We have seen the democrats/liberals hand, we have seen them try for 3 years, to get Trump.....and nothing to show for it, nada.

Now, the republicans can be in control of the ebb and flow, the narrative, the witness list, etc, and have it all come out under oath in front of the American people....

If they blow this chance....then they get what they deserve.  

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Re: Impeachment boomerang
Reply #40 - 12/12/19 at 12:28:01
 
Biden just said he will not appear at a senate hearing on impeachment.....

Would that be obstruction......????
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Re: Impeachment boomerang
Reply #41 - 12/12/19 at 13:22:57
 
Calling on him to testify would be frivolous...  
He would have no pertinent information.
Just muckraking...

It would be hard for Senate Pub's to object after all they the witnesses they let pass....
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Re: Impeachment boomerang
Reply #42 - 12/12/19 at 13:50:03
 
Serowbot wrote on 12/12/19 at 13:22:57:
Calling on him to testify would be frivolous...  
He would have no pertinent information.
Just muckraking...

It would be hard for Senate Pub's to object after all they the witnesses they let pass....


This is why we need a senate trial, where they are all under oath, or refuse a subpoena, no more muckraking.....FACTS, or perjury, or obstruction......
The argument IS Trump was concerned about Hunters involvement in Ukraine, he never said, like Schiff said, "Find me dirt"
Therefore, it is a piece of the puzzle that needs to be investigated....
Regardless of what you, or I, think.......

I would love to see EVERYONE under oath, and answering questions from BOTH sides, even Trump.....

What are you afraid of?

I just listened to Alan Dershowitz, what a scholar......a life long democrat, Hillary supporter, and Obama voter, talk about this stuff....a brilliant man, I am sure you find fault with him too......  Roll Eyes  
 
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