Look at this article, read it.

Why do democrats change, either before, or in my case, after I voted for Obama, his first term, he changed after getting elected.....

Who really is in charge of the democrat party?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-cory-booker-blew-it/602...

I do not know Booker at all, but this "before" he ran guy, seems way better, than what I did see, in his campaigning/debate.

I'll try not to get political - that was what overloaded me in the past, and my views have changed since then as well.
I wont even debate if human caused climate change is real. But every one of the proposals are super $$$ in terms of both time and $$ for the little guy, need super technology scaled at better than linear rates and worse yet, still don't address the problem if one even exists.

They simply should say - no one who needs to not drive to work, should work from home. There is no need to have 1/2 of the IT sector drive in to work be it in CA or NYC or anywhere else. All the crap about buying electric cars and buying electric city busses so everyone can drive 1/2 the distance in the wrong direction to get on the bus, which then ponders along the road electrically making all the other commuters spend more fuel getting around those stupid things … or trains - even worse. Massive infrastructure expense, all so we can burn coal instead of gas - makes the problem worse.

Letting people into the US, where the average emissions per head can be as high as 30X other places like India again stupid idea in terms of Co2.

In effect their 2 favorite proposals will make Co2 emissions worse.

And Greta Thunberg is a clueless hypocrite. Anyone that eats lettuce and not beef prefers to use chemicals to kill weeds, spend labor, fertilizer and definitely CO2.
The greenest food you can eat - weeds - I have several weeks where I would eat weeds growing in my yard. Dandelion, lemony sorrel, clovers,  curly dock, wild onion, wild fennel to name just a few. There are a few million farms that I know of that produce over 70% of the country's meat, and many of them do not use any real feed for their cattle. They let them graze. Cows turn non human food - grass, straw, leaves etc etc into food and milk for people and fertilizer for the soil. Even a cattle feeding operation - huge industrialized farms feed cows with non human spec food - though they do feed them grains grown specifically for them. However, there are many many farms that basically let them graze. I have one I buy from, he says he can get them to slaughter weight in 22-24 months as opposed to 16-18 for the ones in a massive grain fed operation. I pay a tiny bit more but all the $$$ is to help them produce - no middle man.

Brings me to my next point - every commodity on the planet from ass to zebra has a supply chain that is broken beyond repair. The worst examples being chocolate, oil, diamonds. The people that do the work are exploited abused and kept in slavery often for generations, and the ones consuming it are blissfully unaware and overpaying, with none of the benefits going to any of the producers. This is true at varying levels in groceries and meat from supermarkets as well. That has to be fixed before we will ever get a handle on the co2 problem. Try to legislate Co2 and the slaves get the brunt of it, and the consumers get to pay more with no effect on Co2.

See 1 post and off I go on a rant. Anyway 40%+ of my Co2 emission is my commute, and no commuting by bus will not reduce it, it will cost 50-60% up from 40 or so co2 and take 3 more hours out of my day. Worse yet, my home stays heated when I'm out, and the office is heated, lit and humming out co2. If they really think co2 is a problem - they simply need to pass a law saying anyone that can work from home - should. Will also help the lacking infrastructure.

Cool.
Srinath.

Mavigogun wrote on 11/28/19 at 07:25:51:



Did you sell your car?  Do you have solar panels on your house?  Do you use fossil fuels of any kind?  Not good to condemn and complain about others then....

Besides, China has 987 coal power plants and another 121 in production.

Best regards,

Mavigogun wrote on 11/28/19 at 21:50:04:



LMFIFY

I refer to observation as pragmatic objectivity.

Best regards,

Srinath is correct in the assessment that a considerably better solution to energy usage is to allow for more remote employment, and to reduce consumption of traditional agriculture goods.

 Technology has changed, we can now do a lot of work from home.  Yes there is energy usage from home computing, but on average less than the usage of collective business and transit operations combined.

 Weeds, or indigenous plant consumption is a no-brainer, but it is a huge challenge convincing consumers to change their diet.

srinath wrote on 11/29/19 at 04:29:05:


This statement is completely divorced from science, everything known about the impact and environmental costs of industrial animal production.   It’s just wacky.

WebsterMark wrote on 11/29/19 at 06:11:17:


There is really no question that CO2 is NOT the “singular, most harmful” contributor- methane is, by many orders of magnitude, on a per-unit basis.   With industrial animal agriculture, we get a huge liability of both methane and CO2- far beyond the liability of delivering plant-based diets.

Back in the early days of nuclear power, the common form was selected from contesting designs in part due to nuclear weapon proliferation concerns- reactors producing waste with radically shorter half-lifes were rejected in favor of reactors that couldn’t easily serve as a seed for weapons production.  These reactors, in addition to waste transmutation reactors, might address the legacy problem of existing capacity: huge amounts of spent fuel and contaminated water, and catastrophic failure.   If fossil fuel power production were priced to reflect liability, nuclear solutions offering needed security and processes absent today might be a financially viable part of our energy solution.   To see this happen will require coordinated legislation impacting diverse parts of the economy.

I think if we are motivated to just argue, prove the others wrong, get heated, lambaste, defend......

The end result is our focus has shifted from worthy endeavors, to improve our world, to shoring up weak self worth.

Energy is more than emissions, it is also the root foundation to opportunities of citizens of this planet, to have a sustainable life, that affords them all the good advances of its technologies, hopefully removing financial burdens, inaccessibility, and greater distribution to all....

Think about all the possibilities, when folks around this world, have easy and stable access to energy, what we might accomplish as a planet of human beings....endless possibilities.

Presently, energy and wealth, do not allow such opportunities, and together they produce a power structure that supports itself, first.

Just think for a moment, with focus on computer technologies, the advances in that power base, over the last few decades.....

Few would have even been able to see such amazing results.

I believe a new energy source is immanent, its part of mans nature, to explore and push his boundaries.....

These folks go out and discover, not sit and argue over failures.

Try being a positive influence in this word, mercy, we already have to much negativity.....

Shocking...huh    

BTW, how did this thread morph into a energy thread.....????  

srinath...yes, I thought you rode on the left side of the street before, your replies upon your return, had puzzled me, thanks for the explanation....very cool to see people explore their own beliefs, understandings, instead of pushing others to believe as them....THANKS, welcome back  

No, no....wasn't accusing you of riding anywhere, just what I recall of my perception ( of you ).

Your "chosen" lifestyle is commendable, but in reality, not anymore more so than a Christian who believes in Scripture, and tries to live up to its meaning/directions.

But again, I think we don't have to do less, to enjoy more, to reach sustainability.
Wealth allows a large consumption of energy, look at the homes of our media and politician, folk, and look at our universities and schools, sprawling and resource gobbling, yet they preach to the serfs to not bar b que hamburgers.....  

I think conservation has its place, and merits, but it should never be our goals, no....
I believe we will find a perpetual motion, someday....  
Then all the wars, and power, associated with power, will become....moot.

Can I get, a AMEN